Long gone brands?

[BenzBoy]

What has happened to all our British car brands of old? Did BMW scoop most of them up when they bought Rover?

Alvis
Wolsley
Triumph
Humber
Riley
AC
Morris
Hillman.....

Do any of the owners have plans for them? Are they destined to be part of the badge-engineering abuse that Rover has done with MG? Hope not.

[Nick]

i would guess bmw got them when they scooped rover up don't know if they kept them.

i heard of a 75 being luxo'd up and being released purely as a vanden plas.. but then there is always those sort of rumours.

its a shame really.. i bet if we ever saw any of those brands again they would just be rubbishy rebadges of already rubbish cars and not in the spirit of the original company at all

[DarrenW]

BMW did produce a concept Healey around the time of the Z8 I seem to remember... Not sure if they kept the brand with Mini or not though.

[Paul H]

RearwheelNick said:

its a shame really.. i bet if we ever saw any of those brands again they would just be rubbishy rebadges of already rubbish cars and not in the spirit of the original company at all

That's what happened to Riley after 1957, when the Pathfinder was dropped (last car to use the proper Riley twin cam engine).

As for the rest, Alvis is now part of GKN, Humber, Hillman, Sunbeam, Talbot etc are owned by Peugeot.

DarrenW said:

BMW did produce a concept Healey around the time of the Z8 I seem to remember... Not sure if they kept the brand with Mini or not though.

Austin Healey is an oddity, as although BMW owns the Austin name, it cannot use the Healey name without the authorisation of the Healey family, as they found out a few years ago when they designed the AH concept car (successor to the 3000) that you refer to. BMC was only licensing the name, and in 1970 / 71 the license was discontinued by BL (hence the run-out of 1000 or so Austin Sprites) and never actually owned it, so it wasn't part of Rover Group.

BenzBoy said:

Are they destined to be part of the badge-engineering abuse that Rover has done with MG? Hope not.

[Flame suit on] If you research its history carefully, MG has never been more than it is now. [/Flame suit on]

[Benmarina16v]

Alvis are still in existance. After the cars finished productiion a company called Red Triangle was set up to look after the cars and keep the records of the builds. They are based in Kenilworth (Warwickshire). Any part you could want for the Alvis are still made. I went for a job their once but they wanted to pay me peanuts so I had to decline..

Morris is owned by BMW, although some indervidual car names are not.. I think there is a link from www.austin-rover.co.uk about the registered names.

[Nathan]

Forgive my OLD DADDY response but add MG i don't class these plastic bits and bobs added rover 25's upward MG's maybe in like the MG Metro Turbo and the other one, in 20 years i may come to say they are but in my eyes MG Brand Died when Abbingdon was closed and BL took it into its own mind to stick MG on all its normal cars.

JUSt My oppinion of course lol

[BenzBoy]

I think this current batch of MG cars is better than the '80s when they stuck them on Maestros and the like (yeah yeah I know they are considered cool by some people now - including me - but at the time I think it was an awful way to treat the MG brand)
But being considered a tuning label rather than a stand-alone range of cars is a pity.

[Revolution 9]

I hope the old Rootes brands and names never get resurrected, only for the reason that a new Hillman Imp or Sunbeam Stiletto would be a diesel front wheel drive Pug 107 with some nice badges and an upgraded interior with some fake wood or something, just as a new Hillman Hunter would be a 407 or 60-whatever the next one will be with some plastic chrome and a higher price. Although I think a Hunter revival would be out of the question anyway since the UAZ 469 4x4 (a Russian motor, the red Army used to have them, it's a retro car in it's own right and still in production) is now called the UAZ Hunter, so there might be some copyright issues to calling another car the Hunter?

I think the same would apply to all the old BMC brands, although I think a number of the old names probably wouldn't have the right kind of appeal anyway, I mean the Sunbeam Stiletto or Healey Sprite were great names back in the day and implied sportiness etc, but I can't see the chavs and yuppies taking to a car with "sunbeam" on it these days.

[ImpJimbo]

The peugeot dealer in Banbury did a "Stiletto" limited addition on a 306 or something. Think it was in the early 90s.

MG has always been bits of other cars so I don't think there is much difference with the MG versions of new Rovers.

[Nathan]

True but you can say that about cars now I.E Ford, Volvo, Mazda.

MG's were generally built from thier sister comany parts and tarted slightly so nothing has changed really.


www.mgcars.org.uk/news/news128.html

Useful history link, i guess i just see the MG brand on cars they produced (miss out the fact of the sprite and midget ;D) like the BGT MGA and the pre war goodies

[Nick]

id love to see a resurected hillman brand true to form and a new imp be made.. i know it will never happen though.

i wish woul dbe cool tosee

[ImpJimbo]

Some of the Imp guys drive Smart cars and see them as a modern Imp. Sort of see what they mean i suppose.

[Nick]

hmm i can see why they would say that but .. dunno il see what i feel like in 25years about them

[Mr_Bo11ox]

RearwheelNick said:

i would guess bmw got them when they scooped rover up don't know if they kept them.

i heard of a 75 being luxo'd up and being released purely as a vanden plas.. but then there is always those sort of rumours.

Thats true, you used to be able to buy a LWB rover 75 called the VP; Now its called the 'Rover 75 Limo!'

Funny that cos you used also to be able to buy in the states, a Jag XJ40 with vanden plas badges. i don't know who owns the name.

I think BMW owns all those others which are mentioned above.

[Nathan]

you would of thought if it was slapped on a JAG then Ford would own it, strange really

[Paul H]

Benmarina16v said:

Alvis are still in existance. After the cars finished productiion a company called Red Triangle was set up to look after the cars and keep the records of the builds.

Red Triangle aren't part of Alvis, even though they hold all the records for the car side of the company. Alvis was primarily an engineering firm, and the cars were a sideline of the main business. RT was set up when the car arm was axed. See below for RT's own description of themselves:

For over thirty years, Red Triangle has provided a unique service of parts and restoration for Alvis cars based on quality, authenticity and customer care.

Formed by staff and technicians of Alvis when the company ceased car production in 1967, Red Triangle's purpose has been to ensure that Alvis customers continue to receive specialist support for their cars. Our over-riding aim is to continue the tradition created by Alvis and to provide a high quality service to enthusiasts around the world.

They are essentially the parts / service dept. Alvis itself exists as part of GKN, not as part of Red Triangle. If RT was the car company, I think that they'd say so! They also describe themselves as the only authorised supplier of Alvis parts, ie they are not the company itself, but have Alvis' approval.

BGTMIDGET7476 said:

MG Brand Died when Abbingdon was closed and BL took it into its own mind to stick MG on all its normal cars.

ImpJimbo said:

MG has always been bits of other cars so I don't think there is much difference with the MG versions of new Rovers.

The problem is that Nuffield (Morris), then BMC, then BL had all been sticking the MG badge onto their normal cars. The main difference now is that they are based on Rovers, not Morrises or Wolseleys. Mechanically, there have been few purely MG engines (T & Y Series assuming of course that they weren't based on Wolseley designs), and the company started off hotting up Morrises.

The original (vintage) MG M Type was a warmed over Morris Minor, the early '30 straight 6s used Wolseley engines, the Y Type was a modified Morris 8 Series E, the '50s Magnette was badge engineered.... The sports cars may have used their own bodies (except the '61 onwards Midget), but they also used (hotted-up) parts-bin running gear.

[Revolution 9]

I have heard that some people reckon the Smart to be a new Imp, but I'm not sure myself. I reckon a new Imp would be a good idea if it was a rear engined, small, agile little car, in a similar way to the original, but we all know what would happen if it was re-created. It would be similar to the new Mini or that new little Fiat made to look like a Fiat 500, ie a totally unrelated car with no similarity besides a slightly similar retro body and interior style.

[BenzBoy]

To be honest I think the Smart is more like what the new Mini should have been - i.e.: it's an innovative car unlike anything else on the roads. Instead BMW opted for some weak "retro" styling that'll be out of date in a couple more years .
When BMW bought Rover, I remember a lot of motoring journos speculating that they were planning to resurrect the brands that had come with their new purchase. Obviously this never happened, and they washed their hands of Rover... ah well....