considerations for an engine swap?

[ben711200]

I've been having more and more thoughts recently that involve swapping the engine and gearbox from the Herald so it has a bit more go.. I've never done it before and I'm struggling to figure out what all of the things I need to consider should be..

Off the top of my head..
Physical constraints- the size of it, making up mounts etc.

Management- I want something fairly modern and so plan on using stock management (at least to start with) and I understand that depending on the age and complexity, this will involve taking a fair bit of the wiring and stuff over from the donor car.

Finding an engine and gearbox that go together, or that have adaptors relatively readily available so I can hammer the lot together.

Fuelling- I suppose I'd need to sort fuel pumps, a return line etc.

Making sure the rest of the car is up to the job. Suspension, brakes etc.


And I realise I'm being far too vague about everything, and part of me thinks I should just go wild and jump in at the deep end for a massive learning curve. What else should I be considering that I've been too simple to think about?

The current favourite idea is a Rover K Series and Ford Type 9 'box..

[popuptoaster]

i'd try and buy a donor RWD car that has the power and economy you want and parts that will fit in your car, you can use the rad and loom, exhaust parts, fuel lines and pump, the end of the prop that goes in the box etc etc, its all the little parts you need to find that will slow you down and cost money and having a whole car to pull apart makes life much easier.

[ben711200]

Jun 9, 2009 11:55:59 GMT popuptoaster said:

i'd try and buy a donor RWD car that has the power and economy you want and parts that will fit in your car, you can use the rad and loom, exhaust parts, fuel lines and pump, the end of the prop that goes in the box etc etc, its all the little parts you need to find that will slow you down and cost money and having a whole car to pull apart makes life much easier.

like an early MX5? ;D

[popuptoaster]

sounds like a plan, might even be easier to fit a herald body on the MX5 floorpan.

[MightyMork]

engine swaps on these are very simple. first tho as said is to chose what you want.

decide how you want to tackel it and then make the first move!

Also don't forget your stearing rack, it made the final steps of my rotary conversion a bit complex. best to go for an engine with the exhaust exit on the pass side tbh.

Good luck.

[RetroWarwicK]

a suggestion - vauxhall x16xe engine from any corsa or astra. 16v and can use standard ecu etc. adaptor plate available for sierra T9 boxs. engine used in caterhams etc so easy to do.

later mods - throttle bodies and mappable ecu for easy 150bhp

or rover k-series for lightness and keep standard ecu (metro one). again, adaptors for sierra box off the shelf

[ben711200]

Jun 9, 2009 12:08:54 GMT popuptoaster said:

sounds like a plan, might even be easier to fit a herald body on the MX5 floorpan.

Perhaps easier, but that wouldn't really feel right to me...

engine swaps on these are very simple. first tho as said is to chose what you want.

decide how you want to tackel it and then make the first move!

Also don't forget your stearing rack, it made the final steps of my rotary conversion a bit complex. best to go for an engine with the exhaust exit on the pass side tbh.

Good luck.

They're the sort of words I like to hear! thanks, I'll keep the steering bit in mind...

a suggestion - vauxhall x16xe engine from any corsa or astra. 16v and can use standard ecu etc. adaptor plate available for sierra T9 boxs. engine used in caterhams etc so easy to do.

later mods - throttle bodies and mappable ecu for easy 150bhp

or rover k-series for lightness and keep standard ecu (metro one). again, adaptors for sierra box off the shelf

I know nothing about Vauxhalls but it's certainly something to consider, thanks.


At the moment, K Series and Type 9 is still favourite if I run about buying bits, but the completeness of a whole donor to steal bits from certainly makes more sense.

[popuptoaster]

What about a BMW? certainly not my favourite cars but a large variety of engine sizes and power outputs to choose from, plus no mucking about with gearbox adapters and non standard clutches, don't forget if you want to run it as a daily you'll need to be able to get spares and service items easily, things like rad hoses could be standard if you used a single donor car thats already RWD, why make things more complex than you have too?

Or if your gonna use a sierra box, why not use a sierra engine to go with it? seems daft to fit a weird mix and match of parts if your not doing it for lightness/power/class restrictions.

[johnnyboy1987]

don't bother with k series they're curse word go for the honda version of the engine soooooooooooooooooo reliable and has more poke aswell

[kee]

don't ca18det engines have a self contained loom?

[Butterz]

2.0 omega!

[jrevillug]

Jun 9, 2009 18:35:32 GMT johnnyboy1987 said:

don't bother with k series they're curse word

No, they aren't. They had a few issues relating to the HG, but they're fixed now. Light weight, powerful, revvy engine.

Jun 9, 2009 18:35:32 GMT johnnyboy1987 said:

go for the honda version of the engine soooooooooooooooooo reliable and has more poke aswell

There isn't a Honda version of the K series. There were 1.6/1.8 Honda engines used in Honva/Rodas of that age, but they all turn the wrong way - GR8 4 REVERSE.

Ben - other things to consider are exhaust and manifold (most FWD manifolds will run under the engine to the right when mounted longitudinally) and the cooling.

[ben711200]

Jun 9, 2009 16:55:50 GMT popuptoaster said:

What about a BMW? certainly not my favourite cars but a large variety of engine sizes and power outputs to choose from, plus no mucking about with gearbox adapters and non standard clutches, don't forget if you want to run it as a daily you'll need to be able to get spares and service items easily, things like rad hoses could be standard if you used a single donor car thats already RWD, why make things more complex than you have too?

Or if your gonna use a sierra box, why not use a sierra engine to go with it? seems daft to fit a weird mix and match of parts if your not doing it for lightness/power/class restrictions.

I'd never thought of that at all either. You chat alot of sense, Popuptoaster.. BMWs are another one that could be a good idea to read up on..

[MrSpeedy]

4A GE with AE86 'box ?? light revvy and powerfull !

Or you could keep it Triumph and fit a Dolly Sprint lump in there - 135bhp with little work !

[RetroWarwicK]

k series with type 9 is a super package into a herald. has been done in an early spitfire - google "sideways technologies" for info on the conversion.

another option is the ford zetec se engine (fiesta and pumas). this is the all alloy engine. there is an adaptor plate for the type 9 but is around £350 IIRC. not sure about getting the ecu to work though.

having an early spitfire myself and having thought about engine swaps for a while too, IMO i'd be looking for an engine/box swap package that could offer 1) 16v 2) all alloy engine, 3) cheap off the shelf type 9 adaptor plate 4) able to reuse donor engine loom and ecu 5) lighter than existing engine/box) superior fuel economy and performance over existing engine.

for me it would be a rover k series from a 1.4 rover 100 then upgrad to a bigger engine later. the metro/100 donor is the best bet to get around the later immobiliser issues IIRC.

other option is the suzuki vitara or suzuki jimny - all alloy engine, fuel injected and rwd 5sp box and prop. only 1.3L vvc only

[Prud]

If you do an engine swap to a modern EFI car ...

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS FAST AND SIDEWAYS - BUY A WHOLE DONOR CAR AND STRIP IT!!!!

I think that may get the point across

When I did the swap on the Commodore from old 1940's technology to Nissan RB power, it ended up costing more in the little fiddly bits that were missing than it would've to buy a whole car. But because it's $5 here, $20 there, you don't notice it. Until you add up the receipts and you head off to the pub to drown your sorrows (add another $150-$200 there).

It also makes it a shed load easier to strip the car yourself. That way you know exactly what goes where and how it works. So buy a running donor car - nothing worse than trying to troubleshoot this sort of project.

As for what engine - Nissan FJ, CA, or SR series. They're all about 2 litres, 4 cylinders, came with atmo and turbo versions, 5 speed rwd, and can hand over serious horsepower if you want that. CA18DET's fit beautifully in MkI Cortinas with room to spare. FJ's are old motors now, CA's are starting to head that way, but SR's are cheap and plentiful and new. So that'd be the way I'd be heading if I were you.

Good luck!

[madmog]

To add to the above, as well as the initial cost of mixing and matching, if you plan to hold on to your Herald for a while, one doner means less manuals and things to remember at repair and service time. Hmm was it the Vauxhall or Ford clutch I put in there 5 years ago? ...

[ben711200]

It's been a couple days.. but a bump is in order since my question doesn't really justify a new thread.

Is there any reason why I've never seen people using MX5 engines and gearboxes in other, older things. Is it not a good idea? electronics too complex? do people try and then fall in love with the donor car?

[kee]

probably not used because of better alternatives for the same price or cheaper

[MrSpeedy]

don't forget brakes and suspension.
Polybush's tightens things up nicely, along with a late GT6 anti-roll bar, and a front brake upgrade to GT6/Vitesse uprights and discs is a nice easy swap along with Princess 4pot calipers which near enough bolt straight on !