Making panels.......

[Oldbus]

We´ve got quite a few subjects covered here in the usefull threads department but the most important one is missing ;D

How to make panels....

What we need is a metalwork thread where we can all meet up and either help each other out or just ask lots of questions. Now there´s loads of fantastic posts in "Readers rides" and as soon as i find them all again i´ll add them to the thread.

Although i feel quite comfy branding an anglegrinder and am more than happy to show anyone how i dodge stuff together there are one or two very talented people on here that are in a different league.

After following tonybmw´s masterclass in panelbeating he´s very kindly offered his support for this thread.

I´ll copy over some of his posts to get us started but please feel free to add your own wisdom and or questions so that we can get as much information together in one thread as possible.

Comments, feedback, questions, alternatives all greatly welcome but lets keep it on subject please
METALWORK - & WELDING ONLY PLEASE! ;D

[Oldbus]

Aug 16, 2009 18:18:10 GMT tonybmw said:

...and this is where the work starts



A quick jet wash even took the underseal off the inner wings so that was useful



I decided to start with the inner wing repairs first as they looked the most straight forward, after a going over with the twist knot brush this is what we had



How wrong can you be, once the first layer was cut off it exposed another rotten layer, and then another, all the way back to the bulkhead



The only way to deal with this properly is to cut it right out



And then the patching commences



Of course there are very few repair panels available so most parts will have to be made by hand from sheet steel.

Panel number 1



Tacked in



Welded in



Cleaned off



Primered



Panel 2



small patch



Then on with panel 3, each of these parts took a while to make so this was it for that day




The next day saw me completing that inner wing section





A repair then needed to the windscreen surround and scuttle area

[Oldbus]

Aug 17, 2009 21:39:22 GMT tonybmw said:

It seemed logical to stick with this side so I moved down to the door pillar and sill area, as it turned out the sills had been repaired before at the front ends, very nicely done with plenty of filler and pop rivets, looked great but not very structural.



Once the rot was cut back we were left with this, I had to remove the bottom part of the pillar to remove the full sill section, Gordon had been lucky to find a genuine full sill for this side, so I wanted to use as much of it as possible, to try to replicate that factory look




So I made up a patch for the bottom of the closing panel, apologies for not taking more pictures, (note to self : must take more pics when doing the other side)

Anyway here is is, welded in cleaned up and primered, concealed wing fixing also swapped over, onto the new panel, also patch fitted by the jacking point




At this point a Really needed to think about getting the sill on to line everything up, so it was off with the old one





Note spot welds all drilled out, I find that if you rub the area with a piece of sandpaper on a flat block, then it is easier to identify where they are, they all need to be drilled out, to release all of the old sill.




At first I thought that the inner sill was going to be okay, and it would just be a matter of cleaning it up and welding on the new sill, after all it was very clean and solid, when viewed from underneath.



But the fact that this car had been standing so long in damp conditions meant that it was rotting from the inside out, so once I started grinding it clean, it soon became apparent that further repairs would be needed.



So off with the rot



and new panels made



And welded into place, as I could get good access from both sides, I decided to spot weld these on, welding them to the inner sill and the floor pans for maximum strength







And then trial fit the sill, don't worry pop rivets are only temporary and will be removed later, honest





What I have not shown is the doors and wing being fitted, adjusted, adjusted again, taken off, refitted, adjusted, you get the picture.
I wanted to be absolutely certain that once these sills were on, they were in the right place, with good equal and even panel gaps. I have seen far too many jobs, where the doors overlap the sills, or scrape against them every time the door opens and closes. And as my old woodwork teacher used to say, amongst other things, was

" If a jobs worth doing its worth doing well"

[Oldbus]

Aug 18, 2009 19:59:28 GMT tonybmw said:

Once I was happy that the sill and door gaps were good, it was time to weld it on.
I am trying to replicate the factory look where possible, so the spot welder was used where possible, and the posts were pool welded in place to be cleaned off later

You may remember that some of the spot welds had been near the edge of the post, so I had to use a copper block against the edge of the panel, to prevent the weld spreading out over, hence the corner welds are a little lumpy, but once cleaned up it should be fine







Then they were cleaned off with a 40 grit flap disc, and then a Roloc scotchbrite disc and then finally a DA sander with an 80 grit disc



Pretty happy with them I must say




I had to use a Dremmel to get into the corner weld at the rear, if you have never used one of these, then I do recomend that you do, I have to admit that I thought they would be a mickey mouse type of tool, but their not




Then a quick coat of etch primer to stop it rusting








The seams were looking good from underneath too, once seam sealed and painted it should look factory fresh






Meanwhile Gordon was busy stripping the paint in the boot, I set him away with a clean and strip disc on a drill






I was just tacking the front pillar back together when I ran out of welding wire, and that now brings us up to date, so progress will be slower now, only the odd night time and weekend

[tonybmw]

Here goes copying some of the relevant stuff over, I have tried to edit some of it to make it less specific about the Victor project if you are reading this in isolation, but you can always read the Victor rebuild if it helps



You need to use a copper plate to stop the weld extending past the joint, which would then make it difficult to blend in






Then weld down to the copper, the steel weld wont stick to the copper





So when you pull it away, the weld has stopped just where you want it





Then clean off, same as before






Then a coat of etch primer to finish it off

[tonybmw]

This is what we are trying to make






This is what I start with, a peice 1mm Mild steel Zintec sheet.





Then measure the panel





and transfer the sizes to the new steel





and we get this, bend lines also transfered and marked so I fold it up right later





Then cut it out, I generally just use a good quality pair of Gilbow shears for most of my cutting out , although I am hopeing for a nice throatless bench shear for Christmas





I use 2 types of bender, the first is one I bought from Machine Mart or somewhere like that, it is ok, does not do tight bends, but they are even and fine for these type of repair panels





The second is home made, I made this about 20 years ago, and I have used it on every job I have ever done since then, it is a simple design, that basically just clamps 2 peices of angle together, to then allow you to tap it over with a hammer. It also doubles as a small work bench and anvil type thingy.

This has been a godsend over the years, and as it is portable it goes to every job with me








I moved the loose angle in this shot so that you can see how it works






As the bends are straight forward it was into the MM folder, using the fold lines earlier marked to line it up





and that gave this





Then spin it round and put it in again, you have to think through the sequence of bends to ensure that you can always access the bend you need to create





and you get this, up 45 degrees





Next bends would not fit into the MM bender so the HM one was used.





And then folded over, with large peices like this you can normally just push it over with your hands.





and then rearrange as needed





This was a bit tighter at the end so needed dressing over with the hammer.





That gives us this





Then back into the bender





Then up 90 degrees





to this





Then into the other bender





and dress over





We get this, note the puckered edge, this is to be expected as there is too much metal, I could have cut it and welded it.





But instead just prefer to dress it over and force the metal into itself




this takes several minutes or careful hammering as you don't want to stretch the metal.

But you end up with this





Then the ends need folding, due to the configuration of bends I cannot do these in either of the benders, so these have to be manually dressed up. Going back to my earlier point about thinking of the sequence, if I had done these first I would have really been stuck.

So I use a steel block that I have





And dress the flange up against it






You get this





Then repeat





for this





So that is the straight forward bits out of the way, I then need to detail the other end, a small snip is needed, here





And here






And then start to dress upto the block





But only 45 degrees





Then turn it over and dress it up again, smaller dolly needed this time, to get in, the bigger one is much better for dressing against as it is heavier.






Almost there now





Just needs some tidying up








And there you have it, should be okay, and might need a little tweaking during fitting






Once you break the panel down into individual bends, it is quite easy to create some fairly complex parts with just basic tools

[tonybmw]

I want to fabricate the top closing section while I still had something to measure





So out with the tape





Transfer the dimensions





Cut





Fold





Fold





Getting there





This bender is great for finishing off awkward bends





And over she goes





Almost done





Needs a bit of tweaking here





Mark and drill the holes





This then leaves this awkward little bit, needs a snip with the Snippers





Then on with the mole grips





Up





Down








Hammer or should I say Dress, over the vice bed





Ta Da

[tonybmw]

As predicted once that part was cut off the part underneath was also rotten





this is it marked up and cut out, cut the hole out using my Jigsaw





Then start the folds




As you can see the folder has no bottom, so when folding tall sections you can just tip it on its side and feed parts through






Then over and back in





Leaving this





Dressed down to this





Then fold the other end








To this





Ends up now








Other end





Thats the bulk of it





Just the edge around the hole, so start with the mole grips





And up we go, a little at a time





First time around





Second





Just needs a little dressing to finish, on this type of bend you need to stretch the metal, so I use the cross pein end of the hammer against a block, as it squares things up, it also squashes the metal, thus stretching it too





A bit more definition needed





A different block for the tight spots





And there you are, just a run over with the file is all that is needed now








Oops almost forgot the bulge needed to clear the seam and let the water out





I am going to need this





With this





Bash Bash







That gets us the rough shape








So then I need something round and hard, this will do





Then dress it as needed








And check for fit

[tonybmw]

So off came the next layer





I think we all knew that was coming, so out with the twist knot brush just to check





Yep well and truly needs attention


it was actually worse than the other side and all needed to come out






What you could not see was the back, which was inside the car, it was rotten right through.





This looks like it might be tricky to make






As it looked like I would not simply be able to measure and mark out this part I made a cardboard template and taped it together, this is the flat pattern.





Transfered to the steel





Cut out





and start to fold, again thinking of my bend sequence








The next bends are radiused so I used a bit of round tube to help in my bender





Up she goes





Where possible for strength and ease I prefer to join panels with the Joddler, so this joint will be joddled, this needs to be done before that section is bent up





But I also need to part radius this joint as the fold up this seam is also radiused





Both sections need doing





To this





Couldn't get it back in the bender so clamped the tube to it and folded it up by hand





To this





Then need to fully radius the joint where the 3 radii come together, so out some the 2lb hammer again





Bash Bash





Can you see what it is yet ??





As mig weld is very hard and not easy to hammer, I spot welded the joint first to then allow me to dress it into the right shape





Bash Bash





Now nicely formed





The top flange next





Stretch with this end





Puckering needs shrinking





Use Raw Hide mallet to shrink, the raw hide allows the metal to be dressed into itself without stretching it and helps shrink any excess, it is a slow process and needs plenty of practice





Looking promising





2 offcuts for the flutes





Bent up





Layed on and Marked





Cut out





Offered up





Trimmed and Tacked





Welded





Cleaned off with the 40 grit flap disc on the grinder





and a 40 grit flap wheel in the die grinder





You get this





Then over the whole lot with a 40 grit DA disc to remove the flap disc marks and the weld splatter, should really have used anti spatter spray but I did not have any




Welded in the bush for the bonnet hinge and tacked it into place







This section also needed some attention





So marked it out, leaving some metal for the flange, and cut it out






Then dressed the first flange over in the vice





Which gave this





The fiddly bit needs the mole grips





Which leaves this, roughly right but needs more detail





Need a small radius work piece, this will do





Then as before shrink and stretch where needed






And tack in, copper block used again to stop the edge burning away when welding, the trick is to start welding on the copper block and work inwards, rather than outwards.

This would be my top tip for any edge welding like this whether using a copper block or not, start at the edge and weld in, if you work out towards the edge, the heat builds up and the edges can easily be burnt away.





When you pull the copper away you are left with this, weld is sticking past, no burning away, and then just grind the excess down





So all bits now tacked in





Welded and dressed off

[tonybmw]

You will have to visualise a scenario of your own for this, perhaps the bottom of the A post I repaired earlier, or a wheel arch section, anyway this is what we are trying to achieve





This uses 2 of the basic metal shaping techniques, shrinking and stretching, we have touched on them briefly before, you could just of course go out and buy a Shrinker and Stretcher, and to be fair I have one and use it a lot, but that would not be as entertaining.

So start with a scrap of metal, footprint is optional





into the folder





and dress it over





to get this





We are going to curve the small flange, the smaller it is the easier it is, it would be pretty impossible however to curve the other flange which is about 3" wide, so if you had to curve that much, I would probably weld a bit on after.

Anyway, back to the task in hand


You need your cross pein hammer again





and then strike the edge of the flange, against a hard metal surface





This does mark the metal, but that is okay, what it is doing is stretching it, and as you stretch the outside


It starts to curve, this was after about 30 blows





and then just keep at it until you get the curve you want. moving up and down the flange as needed





Obviously, all this bashing distorts the edge a bit





But you can dress this flat with the flat end of your hammer





Turning it over and dressing from the inside if needed





and there we have it, the beginnings of a curvy repair thingy





Once you grasp that it will help enormously with other repair panels.

[tonybmw]

This time we will shrink it instead, making the curve go the other way, now before I start I do want to make it clear that this is not easy, and will take you several attempts before you get anything remotely like a curve, but practice and perseverance is the key.

And if all else fails, buy a shrinker and stretcher, it does the same thing, just alot easier and mechanically, once you grasp what can be achieved and what panels this will help you to make, then you can decide whats best for you


Anyway, start with a new piece





Put it into an open vice and strike down with the cross pein end of your hammer, try not to stretch the metal, just to start the pucker





That will give you this





Then place it over the edge of the vice or similar





And then push it round, this raises the pucker some more






Then you need to use the flat edge of your hammer to dress the pucker in tighter, working in from both sides





To give this, the secret is to get nice tall and tight puckers like this, not too tight mind or too tall, as you may end up folding the metal over instead of shrinking it.





Then back onto a hard metal surface, and dress the pucker straight down, this forces the metal into itself, and shrinks it. A couple of good hard blows are best






This is the result after 1 good shrink





then move up and down the piece repeating the process as many times as needed





After about 10 - 15 minutes you should have something that looks like this, the wrinkles can be further dressed out, or a quick flash over with the Flap disc will help





You can see that this could easily form the end of a sill repair section or similar

As I said this is not easy and is likely to cause many hours of frustration before you get the hang of it, unlike stretching which gives almost instant results.

Fortunately stretching is the more common type of manipulation you will need when creating repair panels.

A good example of a panel using these techniques would be a wheel arch repair, you can create a wheel arch lip using these methods, and once you have the lip into shape, you can add more sections to make up the rest of the arch.

[tonybmw]

After re reading the thread I felt a little further explanation re the wheelarch would be in order, as this is a very common repair needed to our Retro cars

Don't get me wrong there is no substitute for a proper arch repair panel, but if you cant get one, or you only need a small section then this might help

I have done a drawing showing what I meant

On the left is a typical wheel arch profile, and on the right, how it could be broken down into sections, that could be made using the shrinking and stretching methods. I have joddled the joints to make it a better and stronger and easier job to weld, and ultimately easier to grind flat





So starting with an angle section for part 1





But this time for ease I am going to use my Shrinker / Stretcher





The angle goes in like this, the secret to using these is not to put the piece too deeply into the jaws, just try to stretch the first 10-12 mm of the piece, you will get much better and quicker results, than trying push it all the way in.

As mentioned earlier there is a limit to the depth of flange that can be stretched or shrunk, if you stick to 20 -25 mm you should be okay





Then pull the lever, and stretch as required, move around the piece and repeat as necessary until you get the shape you want





Then you need part 2





This time the jaws are swapped over for the shrinking operation





And again repeat until you get the right curve.





As most wheel arches also curve in wards as they go down, then part 1 may need to be shrunk in to suit, so back it in goes and work on its other flange





you get this, not really sure if you can see it very well from the picture, but as it curves around the arch, it also curves back in front and rear. Part 2 is much harder to make follow this shape so if necessary you may need to make part 2 in smaller sections, or even cut it in places, but for this demo, I made my part 1 suit my part 2, hopefully you will get the idea





Offer the 2 parts together and tweak then until they follow the curve you need, and match each other





Once happy with that Joddle the edge of part 1, you can just see my air joddler to the left , they are a great piece of kit, much easier on the wrist than the hand operated ones.





Then trim part 2 as needed and offer them together, with any final tweaking as needed





Then again for ease I spot welded them together, but obviously any type of welding will do





Here you can see the benefits of joddling the joint, all that needs now is a bead of weld, then grinding off, and as it is on the flat surface it should be straight forward enough, and nice and flat when you have finished





And the view from inside, a bead of seam sealer once it is welded should be all you need





I did not actually get as far as making part 3, but I am sure you get the Jist of it, in most cases that part may not even be needed, I always try where possible to join arches along the line of part 2, as this helps to minimize distortion,makes it easier to clean off, and means you don't have to spread filler all over the whole side of your wing to try to blend it in



Now that you know how to make an arch repair panel, I will quickly show you how I would weld one in

This is a sequence of photos, from a BMW 6 Series that I am also busy with for another friend, Neil





First cut out the rotten part of the arch, trying to keep the cut within the flare of the arch





Then trim your arch down to suit





Joddle as needed





And then tack it in, make sure it is right before you start welding as once you start it will be too late to try to change it, use plenty of clamps if needed to make sure.


Then lots of tacks





Then fully weld it, not that it as easy as that, you must only weld in 1inch bursts, and move randomly over the length of the arch doing so, the tip is to prevent too much heat build up, or else you will end up buckling the rear wing, and then have to spend hours filling it to try to get it flat again, so little at a time and well spaced out, leaving it to cool between welds if needed








Then as before grind off using the edge of a grinding disc to start with to take the tops off the welds, and then a 40 grit flap disc, but again you have to be careful not to concentrate too much attention on 1 spot at 1 time, as even grinding can cause heat distortion


and all being well you should finish with this








Just a light skim of filler should now see that looking just right

[tonybmw]

Once the battery tray was removed, it became clear that the inner wing was going to need some attention too





So a repair panel is going to be needed, as this could be seen from both sides, I decided that a butt jointed repair would be the best option

So clean up the wing and cut out the rot





offcut of metal





Radiused bend needed so bit of tube in the bender





A bit oversized but will be trimmed





Trimmed and offered up





and Tacked in place





View from the rear, you must ensure good penetration when carrying out butt welds that will be ground off later






Not sure if its really a tip or not, but you really have to get good penetration when carrying out butt welds, so you really need to know your welder.

to set up my welder, I keep turning the power and wire speed up until I start burning holes, and then I back the power setting down 1 notch, and adjust the wire speed until you have a nice steady weld, without spitting stuttering or burning back into the tip.

When butt welding 1mm steel, you really should be expecting to burn through, if not you don't have penetration, but this should be after 3-4 seconds of continous welding, so here is what I do

First of all you need plenty of tacks, and the patch must fit well, and be level, extra time spent getting this right will pay off. Then I will try on a scrap piece, perhaps as the weld starts to flow and get hot it will start to burn through after 15mm of travel, so then I only weld for 10mm, and then stop for 0.5 second, then weld another 10mm, then stop for 0.5 again, and so on and so on, just stopping for that 0.5 second, gives the metal just enough time to cool, without going cold, to allow you to continue without burning through. and if your tacks are spaced about 20mm apart then you stop and start on a tack.
Then move around the piece, welding between other tacks, this stops the piece or the surrounding metal distorting with the heat. all being well you should finish with this


All fully welded





Check the rear for penetration





Now grind off the rear with the flap disc, it does not need to be perfect as primer and paint will cover it later





But more time needed on the front, again grind with 40 grit flap disc, then 120 grit Roloc, then Brown scotchbrite Roloc, then 40 grit DA disc, the DA disc just helps to smooth and even everything out, and nicely rounds all the edges

[tonybmw]

So got the chassis repair tacked in








Then fully welded, and zinc primed





Then cleaned off





Then measure up for the closing piece, measuring the angle





Then as before transfer to the sheet





Few more lines and we have it marked out





Cut out





And into the bender, the same as before














Half way there














and finished





Check for fit





Just needs the split welded up, the copper block comes in handy again for these, firstly it is a flat surface to clamp too and keep the 2 halves level.





And secondly it allows you to fill the gap without creating big snots on the inside, this is the inside, it will need just a quick flash over with the grinder to smooth it out





Then spot weld that in, to make it look factory, bumper mounting nut already added to the rear





Coat of etch primer and jobs done

[tonybmw]

I have been asked by a few people about where to get the copper blocks from, I have probably mislead people slightly by calling them blocks, when they are in fact copper flat bar, the one I use if 60mm wide x 6mm thick x 150mm long.
You should be able to pick something up from your local big machine shop, or Autojumble, alternativley I have just seen this add on Ebay, they would do just the trick

cgi.ebay.co.uk/Copper-Flat-Bar-50mm-x-10mm-x-100mm-Long_W0QQitemZ180374359174QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item29ff264c86



I also use a thinner peice of copper plate approx 50mm wide x 2mm thick, this is useful as you can bend it or roll it into shape if you need to

[tonybmw]

Had to repair a motorbike exhaust for another friend, straight forward enough, but 1 piece was supposed to fit inside the other and I did not have a piece of tube, the right diameter for the larger bore

So

Took one section of the tube





and cut





Open out to the new diameter and clamp in place with a piece of rolled copper underneath, but make sure the copper is clean, not like this piece, you will see why later





Then lay 2 tacks down 1 at each side





Then join up, just weld straight across the copper





then repeat at the other end, joint at 12 mm so quite a gap to fill





Then weld across in a zig zag fashion starting from one end and working down, the idea is to try to keep a continuous and hot weld for good penetration and no porosity


Photo taken whilst it was still hot





Remove copper, I had to get a chisel between to split them apart in this instance, the contamination I mentioned earlier had attached itself to the weld and the copper, but a couple of swift blows and it was off

View from outside, large weld but will clean up if needed





And more importantly view from the inside, a quick going over with the flap wheel on the die grinder will soon have that smoothed out





I could not have done it like that without the copper block

[tonybmw]

I have shown you how to make these parts, but never explained how you measure and mark them out, I apologise in advance if I am covering stuff that you already know, but I thought it would be worth clarifying it

What you have to remember when working with metal is that you work with the inside sizes, and then when you fold a peice up its outside sizes are 1 metal thickness bigger at each bend.

For example if you were to mark 2 lines at 50 mm apart on a piece of 1.5 mm steel and then fold both of those lines up to form flanges and then measured it, it would measure 53 mm outside.





I will show you with some pictures, it is one of those things that once you can see it it is obvious




So say for instance we wanted to bend up a piece of angle in 1.5mm steel and the outside sizes of the angle are to be 25mm x 30mm








Then the inside sizes would be 23.5mm x 28.5mm




and they are the sizes you would mark on your sheet, obvioulsy if the material had been 3mm thick, then the sizes that you marked would have been 22mm x 27mm





As your piece starts to include more bends, it becomes a little more complex, in that you have to take off 2 metal thickness, this really insn't any different than before as it is 1 thickness per bend, but per direction also





Again a picture might help




Say we wanted to bend up a chassis section





The inside sizes would be





Note how this works when you bend the last 10mm flange on, you still work to the inside size, but as it is only 1 bend then you only take off 1 x metal thckness, but also note that to achieve the overall width of 50mm you have to mark and bend the width at 47mm



The flat pattern for this chassis section would be as follows





Hope I have made that clear and sorry if I have gone over something that you already knew

[tonybmw]

Nov 3, 2009 0:52:12 GMT dubwarrior2 said:

Awesome work.
Can you offer some advice on how to make a piece for my Vw splitty.
It is basically this cross section -



And goes here -



The folds are quite small at the bottom, about 10-15mm and the strip is 1800mm in length. It also has the radiused fold on the bottom for the rain seal to sit into.

The centre will need chopping about but I would love to be able to make this. Any advice?

Nov 3, 2009 23:32:34 GMT dubwarrior2 said:

These are the approximate, but fairlly accuarate measurements and ahd lost onf the folds at the base of the sloping piece.



Hope this helps and thanks for your advice so far

Dubwarrior2 - Your piece first, it is a bit more tricky than my first sample as the bends are so small, I can honestly say that you might be better off getting a local sheet metal place to knock all the straight bends up for you, and then just leave you to knock the radius on last.

But here is my attempt at it anyway, as I said, it is much easier on a small section like this then on a full 1200 long piece


Start with steel





Mark out





Create first bend, this is the radiused end first





Over 90 degrees





Then reposition for the next bend





But the bend is too small to get the hammer in.





You could try knocking it over from there, but you will more than likely damage your first flange, the alternative method is to drift it over, I used the copper block, but you could use anything, even a piece of wood if necessary





And then gently tap it over, moving along the piece as you go





Until you get it over far enough to get back in with the hammer





Again relocate for next bend, again need to use the drift




And over 45 degrees this time, or whatever the angle is





That gives you this





Then relocate for the last bend this is much more accessible and can be knocked over with the hammer,





some hand pressure on the top edge helps to take it over











To this, almost there





Then just need to create the radiused bend on the end, I was struggling to find anything 8 mm dia, so just used this drill bit, but it would be much better to use something smooth, like some round bar.

Anyway, clamp the drill to the piece





And dress it over








and there you have it








Hope you like it

[tonybmw]

Nov 4, 2009 0:11:52 GMT rtlkyuubi said:

Hi there, sorry to make this into a question and answer thread but:

I need to make a new engine sump and I want to weld it as little as possible. after a bit of thinking I made a rough diagram of the add on to the original sump pan:



I want it to be simular to my current sump:



Would the bend lines be best, or too akward, or theres a better way??

Your flat pattern is about right except I think your bottom right hand section looks too large






Whilst you could go ahead and cut it out like that, it would be quite awkward to do and then even more difficult to bend up







So I would propose breaking it down into these sections instead, the centre section being just one piece










That way they are just 4 x rectangles with some notches, much easier to create and a whole lot easier to bend up, not sure if you planned on bending it up your self, but as you will need to use something quite thick, you would be best off getting a local sheet metal place to bend the centre section up for you, any company with a half decent press brake should be able to achieve that centre section in one piece, just leaving you to weld the ends and the small cap on top

Hope this helps

[dubwarrior2]

For the copper, to prevent welds coming through, I have used flattened copper piping. Just squeeze it flat in a vice and it can be bent into all sorts of shapes for those hard to reach areas.