Timing belt pickle

[speedy88]

I messed up, but I've not broken anything yet. Some bearings were screaming at me from under the timing belt cover so I decided it would be right to replace said bearings before they seized and the belt slipped off destroying my valves.

Taking off the cover I released the belt tensioner - suddenly things began to go wrong. The belt slipped suddenly as the tension was released and I realised already that the two camshaft's alignment points were at least 1 tooth out of alignment. To confirm this I rotated the crankshaft with a spanner.

This is my 1st question - the valves made contact while I did this and I'm worried that this would damage the valves (under hand pressure). I've no idea how soft they are so have I damaged them?

On from here I began to get annoyed so I just whipped off the belt to find the broken bearings (turns out its the oil pump, at least I found the problem).

Now this is question 2 - I realise now that the crankshaft is in no way possibly in no1 cylinder position. The two camshafts are in awkward positions. How do I get the crankshaft to no1 position?

On the plus side the timing belt still has markings on it so I should be ok reusing it. So I'm in a right pickle here, how do I get out?

The engine is a renault 16v, the early type 2.0L or "williams".

[Seth]

I'm not familiar with those engines but I'd have thought that the crank and cam gears should all have alignment marks on them. Try web searching for info - I came across a wealth of info when looking up how to do the MX5 belt.

[bmw156]

don't reuse the belt, unless you only just put it on.

buy a new one.
and IMO it wont have damaged valves,

and an easy way to get piston one to TDC is with a long screwdriver down the plug hole!

[popuptoaster]

Scarys method of a hollowed out spark plug with a balloon on it works great for finding TDC and you know the valves are closed.

[bxer]

I think the OP is worried about bashing valves & pistons on the way back round to TDC?

I'd get the pistons so they're all halfway up & down and on the way to TDC on number 1, then put the cams in the right place, and bring it to TDC

[speedy88]

^ Yep.

Sounds about right, thanks for the advice! I'm going to make a guess that when the cam marker is in the 12oclock position it means the valves are all closed?

[Ads 19]

i don't think you will have damaged valves, they are pretty strong.
i've not yet trusted my self to build up a valver so don't really have a clue about the timing points. get on retro renault they'll tell you in seconds!
could always look at the timing marks on my clio if you like for refernce point, its comming out hopefuly at weekend. and plan to put new cambelt and clutch in before it goes into kangoo.
you got a car or are you buggered till you fix it?

[speedy88]

Sweet, clio powered kangoo can only mean good things! I should be able to fix this tomorrow, Haynes is relatively clear. It's just the getting it to no1 that I'm a bit worried about. And yep, it's my only car at the moment so I'm buggered till I fix it.

[scaryoldcortina]

Pretty much all modern twincams have a locking device for the cams when doing the belt - as you noticed 1 set of lobes isn't enough to hold them still. I'm not particularly familiar with the williams, but the normal way is to take the rocker cover off, move the cams to their marked positions (with the pistons half down the bore to avoid bending valves, lots of leverage on a cam......) and place a steel bar in the slots at the back of the cams locking them against the back of the head. You can then bring the crank round to no1 top (by hand) and put the new belt on. The other way of doing it (quick 'n' dirty) is to line up the cams and hold the wheels to each other with a pair of molegrips while you fit the belt.

[cobblers]

Oct 20, 2010 21:41:15 GMT scaryoldcortina said:

The other way of doing it (quick 'n' dirty) is to line up the cams and hold the wheels to each other with a pair of molegrips while you fit the belt.

I'll remember this one

[robinmasters]

Oct 20, 2010 17:15:14 GMT popuptoaster said:

Scarys method of a hollowed out spark plug with a balloon on it works great for finding TDC and you know the valves are closed.

There is something very, very amusing about this ;D

[scaryoldcortina]

Oct 20, 2010 22:18:50 GMT robinmasters said:

Oct 20, 2010 17:15:14 GMT popuptoaster said:

Scarys method of a hollowed out spark plug with a balloon on it works great for finding TDC and you know the valves are closed.

There is something very, very amusing about this ;D

I also don't remember saying that... I do use a whistle stuck in with blu-tac when finding no1 top for ignition reasons though. That way I can be sure I'm on the compression stroke and get an audible warning that it's time to start looking at the mark on the pulley/case/flywheel.

[Ads 19]

or cut belt down middle,leave plugs out and rotate by hand. wont work for you. but usually works. nothing can be as annoying as golfs where mark on bottom pulley, which on a key way and its all to easy for it to spin and end up 180 degrees out

[speedy88]

Found no1, got a drill bit in there to lock it, got the cams aligned. Just came in for a cuppa. Wish me luck on first time fitting a timing belt!

[cobblers]

If you make sure to turn it over by hand a few times and recheck the timing before starting the engine you should be fine

[speedy88]

All fixed! Glad I've learned how to do that. Unfortunatly I still have the bearing whine I was trying to find in the first place. I'm 90% sure its not in the timing circuit though so might just have to wait until it breaks...

[cobblers]

Is it the alternator/water pump? Remove the auxiliary belt and run the engine and see if the noise stops

[speedy88]

Idea! It's started raining so I'll have a drive tomorrow and a roadside tinker.

[ChasR]

As a word of warning for others in the future, if you use the keyway lock in a crank pulley in order to lock the crank to TDC (as in many Pugs and some Fords), use a backup timing indicator always (some cars have notches on the flywheel for this or reference markers on the belt sprocket on the crank and block) as the crank pulleys have been known to slip, with the results being obviously disastrous.