Sleeve nut question

[BenzBoy]

I'm after a bit of advice regarding sleeve nuts, which I need to use to fit the Slot Mags.

I've changed my wheel studs to M12x1.5, but these have a small unthreaded part at the bottom, like this:



Now, with ordinary wheels and nuts this wouldn't matter as the thickness of the alloy wheel would cover it. With the sleeve nuts extending through the wheel, am I still going to run out of thread and be left in this sort of situation:



I suppose it boils down to how far sleeve nuts are designed to go through the wheel.
Are they meant to go all the way to the back of the wheel (or almost to the back) like this:



In which case I'll probably run out of thread before they tighten.

Or can they only partly go through the wheel like this:



I'm trying to find out before I take the plunge and spend a load of cash on nuts.
Spacers aren't really an option as there isn't a lot of room - I've fitted spacers behind the steels I have on to stop the nuts running out of thread, and I'm having some rubbing issues on the front even with 155 width tyres.
Any help much appreciated!

[том]

on the sled with my 5 spoke revs, i had to use Ford imperial sleeve nuts, and they didn;t go the whole length of the thread. I wasn't sure about it for ages, but after lots of reasearch and gentle testing, i found out that theoretically, 5 threads is all you nead to keep it secure, and more is just bonus.

So if you get it like the bottom pic, part way through, and you've got at least 5 threads covered, you should be absolutelly fine. but the more the better for your own peace of mind.

NB: This is safety gray area, so it rest's on common sence and if you are willing to take the chance.

For what it's worth, I've done it like the bottom pic, and it was solid as a rock, and the wheels on mine weren't even tight on the centre hub, all the weight resting on the nuts.

[ChrisT]

I cut my sleeved nuts down by a few mm as they were too long.
IIRC they were threaded all the way down but there's nothing to stop you running a 14mm drill down the end so they can sit over the base of the studs.

[bortaf]

Normal steel nuts only use about 5 or 6 threads on the stud so as long as you don't go any less than the normal nut i'd say it was OK, done similar before and had no problems

[enoford105e]

Sleeve nuts usually go down to 3~4 mm from the mountingface of the wheel with the washer fitted (infact when I used to work at Revolution in the 80's we counterbore the wheel so the tube nut ended flush with the moutingface and when you fitted the washer it kept it far enough away. To stop the wheelnut bottoming out on the stud convert them into open-ended nuts in a lathe and to stop the bottoming out on the unthreaded part on the stud run a larger drill into the nut to provide sufficient clearance in both depth and diameter
Trust that makes sense

[v8ian]

Option 3 is probably correct answer, as long as the nuts, 1 do not bottom out on the hub, and, 2, do not bind on the thread.

threads generally obtain maximum strength over 4 turns, it is only a guide, and some threads can obtain full strength on their 2 turn, others in more than 6, I do have the formula somewhere, but finding it would be a problem,

[BenzBoy]

Thanks a lot guys, I knew I could get informed answers here!

The thing that troubles me about the sleeves not going all the way down to the mounting face is the possible stress that could be on the "unsleeved" part of the studs. I don't know if that would happen or not.

I don't consider myself too paranoid about safety but I really don't fancy crashing a half-tonne of GRP if the studs shear! ;D

It could be that I'll have to re-think my plans for the wheels as I don't fancy changing all the studs again, or adapting wheelnuts - I don't have a lathe or anything like that.

I was in two minds with the Slots as they are very '70s and I'm going for a period 1960's look.

Thanks again!

[jrevillug]

Once the nuts are tightened, they will not see any sideways load, since that will be taken by the friction between the wheel mounting face and the hub. Using shorter nuts, as shown in your last diagram, won't be a problem as long as the nuts have a good number of thread engaged - I have heard a suggestion that the engaged thread should be at least 1.5x as long as the stud is wide.

So the studs will only see a direct tensile force, aligned with the stud - which is their strongest direction, and is the same force that they'd see with standard tapered nuts on steels.

One thing to be careful of is wheel spacers - they often have a smaller surface area in contact with the wheel than the hub, which can lead to side-loads on the studs. Another thing s the stud pattern - if it's wrong the studs might be bent sideways when yuo tighten them up, again leading to snappage.

It might be worth making sure that the mounthing face of the wheel is clean and flat, to ensure maximum friction against the hub.

As for whether the slots are right or not, only you can decide - but don't be put off because they need sleeve nuts.