Bit of market research ref workshops...

[fad]

Workshop spaces... Is there a market, do we think, for a large unit with individual "spaces" to be let out by the hour, day, week etc?

Would you have a need to rent a space for a couple of hours or days, say? What would you pay for a safe, secure place to work on your motor for a few days, for example if it had failed the MOT on a few bits? Or maybe you have some light resto work which will take about 3 months part time and you need somewhere warm, dry and safe to do it?

Would you expect facilities to be available? Like lifts etc? Would you expect to have tools available to use?

What are your thoughts on it. I know there are a couple of places in the Country that already do this, have you ever used one? Are they reasonable? What facilities were there? How did you find using them worked out? How did the charges break down?

[nomad]

I'm in a car restoration club based North East, they already offer this ;D
Very handy for me as I don't have anywhere to work at home You can book a workshop bay for a couple of weeks (mot prep, replace sills, windows out and repaint, etc),

I think they own the building (ex-factory?) as a result of a gift from a previous club member.
Once you join the club (£35 / year ?), they offer several options :

4 poster ramp - book by the day

"short term" bays (4 available?), marked out same as parking bays, book by the week (normally 8 weeks max).

"long term" bays with storage (35 available?). Add your name to the waiting list, when one of the existing projects is completed and moves out, top one on the waiting the list moves in. Be prepared for a *very* long wait! ( couple of years ) Pay rent per month, bay is yours for as long as your restore takes but you must spend some time there every week to avoid eviction. Sounds fair to me and avoids it being a permanent parking spot (something to think about for you?)

HGV "storage containers" (4 available, more being discussed), in use as long-term bays, small but popular for minis & microcars

Paintshop (dedicated shed ;D), book per week, size will take 2x vans end to end so plenty of space to work. Has decent panel heaters for drying.

Can also cope with bikes (1x proper garage bike lift - very handy

Other (non-chargeable) services which are available to all members, reasonable machine shop (mainly pressing / cutting tools, no lathe), ready-to-use oxy-acet gas rigs with gas, piped airlines (bring your own tools), blasting cabinet, canteen (kettle, table, stove sink - you provide the drinks ;D), good sized club room (pie & peas suppers, etc), racks of workshop manuals & dedicated tools that have been donated / collected over the years, and very friendly & helpful members so you can always find someone who knows what's need if you are stuck.

Brink your own handtools & mig (& spray gear) and you're sorted
If you can put together anything close to that, I recon you've cracked it ;D

[ben711200]

Somebody did this local to me in 2009. Their website hasn't been updated since and the phone number doesn't work so I assume they aren't trading anymore.

www.rent-a-ramp.com/contact.html

[Battles]

It's a great idea, particularly if you already own the building that you want to put the spaces into but I'm not sure people would pay enough to make it worthwhile.

I looked into this a few years ago and a guy I kinda know looked at doing it in the last six months but both times it seemed impractical.
In my case, I could've gotten a long lease on an old factory and in the more recent case, the guy personally owns the site and the business he ran from it recently failed so he wanted to turn it into an earner this way.

I didn't think of it myself, there was a place like this that operated in Kirkcaldy, Fife that lasted a couple of years. They had equipment for hire inside and I think that was how they made it pay for itself.

In both cases the insurance required was mind-boggling and the local authorites, two different Scottish authorities, had loads of restrictions and environmental requirements that they said must be met.
I didn't investigate whether they were legally enforcable because I just got the feeling that the authorites didn't want this sort of business operating on their manor. In fairness to the Council, they also had loads of new business grants available if you met their requirements so some of the costs would be covered by that.

Running this sort of thing as a business burdens you (the business owner) with at least some liability (financial if nothing else) for the possible negligent and criminal actions of those using the space.
If someone starts ringing cars (like the Classics Monthly readers from the "Reshell or Die" thread) in the space you rented out then you're probably not going to be prosecuted but you'll have the Police crawling all over you for a while and that could destroy the business.

From an insurance and liability perspective, I considered that I'd effectively be running a couple of different businesses:
A self storage site - gives limited liability for what your customers are up to in the spaces they rent from you
An equipment hire business - provides limited liability and insurance for customers using your kit
A commercial garage - provides insurance for the work going on in your premises and allows you to make sure you comply with environmental waste legislation (waste oil, tyres etc.)

The solution I came up with after speaking with the council was that it could work much more simply if you set up a private club, an owners club or whatever, and ran it that way. EDIT: The post above describing the restoration club sounds perfect!
In the same way that people used to run raves and club nights as private members clubs to avoid licensing laws, you could have people paying annual or monthly subs for using the spaces with additional fees for renting kit to generate income.
Not sure how you'd legally protect yourself from someone robbing other users or from running a criminal enterprise from your site.

Sorry for the long post, PM me if you want to pick my brain about it.
I may still have the notes I made and the environmental requirements I found out about.

[hodaz]

There was place around the corner from me that rented out ramps at £15 an hour, or £60 full day. I used them once to do some axle bushes (pain the the ass lieing on your back on the drive) but they went out of business with 6 months. That was provide your own tools, you also had to sign a form to basically say you werent going to do anything stupid/illegal, and sit through a 10 minute health and safety induction, but how legally binding this is I don't know, I presume not at all.. seems a bit like a car ropey trading writing "sold as seen" on a receipt, depsite his legal responsibilities being far further reaching. Seems like a good idea but it mustn't have paid for itself.

Nomad - that car club sounds awesome, where is it based? I'm in Newcastle too and sounds interesting.

[stealthstylz]

I think very good CCTV giving full coverage would also be needed to make sure people don't "borrow" other people's stuff.

Matt

[akku]

Most businesses fail due to cash flow issues in the first 2 years.

Pubs, clubs, bars, cafes, burger vans, clothes shops, etc. included.

Just because a business failed doing something doesn't mean you can't be successful at it. Just the same as if you see someone else successful in a business doesn't mean you will be if you try it.

I would love to be able to rent a body shop to paint my cars in.

Motor trade repairs is one of those ones though where councils want to make it as hard as they can for you. Especially if you do bodywork and paint there.

Do your homework, and make sure you have twice as much cash as you think you need as you will get less business than you predict, more bad payments and bigger bills.

[nomad]

Feb 17, 2011 15:21:30 GMT hodaz said:

... that car club sounds awesome, where is it based? I'm in Newcastle too and sounds interesting.

If anyone wants more info, feel free to pm any questions...

Feb 17, 2011 15:59:16 GMT akku said:

Most businesses fail due to cash flow issues in the first 2 years.

Motor trade repairs is one of those ones though where councils want to make it as hard as they can for you. Especially if you do bodywork and paint there.

Cashflow at the club is fairly predictable as everyone pays an annual membership ( 300 members? x annual fee) then you have rent from bays (guestimated 30 bays x monthly rent), so they have a known income + 2 annual fundraising open days.
Any building repairs or maintenance normally get done by volunteer members so nil cost.

A lot of the other regulations are avoided because of the way it operates.
It's a members only club, hence you don't have the issue of strangers / public on-site.
Their policy of "take your rubbish home with you" is important as it removes the need for waste oil permits, etc.

[akku]

indeed, as a club you can operate differently but I understand that the OP is looking to set up a business.

[fad]

thank you for all the input chaps.

I am not trying to set up a business doing this - this has all stemmed from my search to find a lockup to work from. It would not be run on a profit making basis (any "profit gets stuck in a slush fund to cover costs and overheads). Members club would work very well I think, certaily better than throwing the doors open to Joe Pubic.

I am aware of the NERC, sadly it's just too far from me to make it worthwhile. Washington is a hike from here and once I factor in fuel costs (and the waiting list!!!) it just isn't viable for me, especially since I work 8 weeks on 8 weeks off with my job, and my 8 off aint "off", I take on my daughter full time to give the other half a damn well earned break.

The search for my own place actually turned up some rather interetsting things and ideas, off the back of it the Missus is seriously considering her own business venture which I think will succeed, something I feel so confident in in fact that I am entertaining the possibility of selling our house and using the equity to part fund it, that's how much I believe in her.

Anyway, the upshot of that is we may well end up with a lot of space and no requirement to use it all - ergo something which makes use of the space and, while not making profit, helps with the overheads of her business and means we aren't paying for dead space, and also means I FINALLY get a SODDING WORKSHOP makes sense LOL! one thing I would not want to do is "compete" with the NERC, so we shall see what happens. Perhaps I will talk to the NERC and see if they fancy having another "Chapter" of their club and let them have the space we have spare... I dunno, early days yet!

Thank you all again!

Thank you again for your input!

[fad]

Incidently, FWIW, I don't profiteer with anything generally, I am happy with my salary and most things I do outside of work are because I genuinely believe in them. Money comes and goes, I've noticed through life that no matter how much I have, come payday I'm still skint and still choosing between bread and bog roll! I jsut aint cut-throat enough to make it in business! That said, it hasn't stopped me from making the odd profit here and there from things I've spotted LOL! Still kicking myself for not buying an Armstrong Siddely in near mint condition and a 1303 Bug Cabrio that looked like it just left the factory when I was offered the pair for £9000! Bah!

The Missus and her Mother on the other hand... Well... Her Mum and Dad have had a couple of successful businesses started from scratch, and made them work very well. She sold one on and within a year, it eased trading despite being very profitable, very lucrative and with a captive market. I understand about business very well! With her on board I think the Missus's plan will work. It won't be a massive business empire, we won't be millionaires, but it'll be a nice little tickover number and, with my salary still coming in to pay the bills, we should be alright with it

[bm0p700f]

I-tuned in Watton Norfolk do this. Nathan there has made it work but he does take one custom exhaust work inclusing manifolds and engine tuning.

Give it a go. Provide lifts, tools and advice and and bay rent for £10/hr or less and bingo.

I-tuned bay hire is £10/hr for the first hour then £7.50. You get tools and a 2 poster ramp. It makes servicing easy. I have used them a few times now.

[steadyg2002]

A few years ago there was a place like this in Welwyn Garden City, called The Workshop. Cracking place, long term and short term. IIRC was run by the local council. don't know exactly why it closed.