2.8 Carb to EFI Conversion

[roundozo]

Hello all,

I’m looking for some advice on how to convert a carb’d 2.8 V6 Cologne (Weber 38) to EFI. Bit of a newbie to this so would like as much advice and guidance as I can get. Here’s the story so far;

I have a Mk4 Cortina currently running with the 2.8 V6 cologne with weber 38’s. The engine has developed an oil leak for the second time near the crank bearings. These have been replaced before so I think that the crank has bent or done some other damage to cause it to leak so soon after being repaired. I recently got the below engine and plan on replacing my current one with this;

Before it goes in I want to restore it and potentially change over to EFI as I’ve heard it’s a lot more conservative on the fuel than the carbs. What has to be done to the engine and electronics for this to be done? I presume that it will need some sort of electronic management system etc but would like to gauge how much work and at what difficulty I’m looking at. Or, would it be easier to sell this and just buy and engine already set up with EFI?

Any advice is more than welcome.

Kind Regards,

George.

[popuptoaster]

Efi is hard to find for the 2.8, most had Mfi, and yes they do drink a LOT less fuel than carbed ones, if your changing engines anyway though i'd go for a 2.9, much easier to find the bits for, basically just buy a 2.9 granny scorpio (not bug eye shape) and rob it of all the bits you need including the engine, you can bolt your 2.8 gearbox, flywheel and clutch straight onto it and it'll sit on the 2.8 mounts.

[Team Blitz]

Some carb 2.8's get exceptional mileage, so it depends on the exact spec. For example, the 1974 Mk1 Capri with factory 2.8, 3-port exhaust, 32/36 Holley 5200 licensed Weber, can achieve upwards of 28MPG (US gallons). Inasmuch as the euro 2.8 usually had 2-port exhaust, and yours is a 38 carby, I'd imagine you're doing a fair bit worse. The 2.8i Capri boys do no such bragging about their mileage either with the Bosch system, and there's no ECM fitted BTW being a pre-EEC design.

[roundozo]

humm, yeah min's a two port exhaust system. I'm now thinking it might be easier to do what popuptoaster suggests. Sell the 2.8 and just buy a 2.9i as it should fit in the same. obviously i will need to sort out electronics, fuel delivery, etc but sounds like less work than trying to turn the 2.8 into an i. What year should i be looking at? MK2 granada range?

[popuptoaster]

mk3 granny for a 2.9, it'll have the fuel pump and filter on a conveniant cradle under the back along with all the wiring you'll need, the engine loom is easy to seperate out on a granny as well so no complicated wiring to deal with, it does look like spaghetti junction but once you start stripping it out it'll be obvious which bits you need to keep as the engine, fuel pump and ecu wiring is seperate from the rest of the car except for the earths and lives to power it up.

Mk3 granny should be cheap enough for a rusty one that you can take out what you need and get most of your cash back weighing the shell in.

[qwerty]

MK3 Granada is what you need to be looking for 1987<

[roundozo]

already looking, somting like this??

cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-GRANADA-MINSTER-SPARES-REPAIR-PROJECT-BANGERRACING-/330531377323?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4cf53490ab

[popuptoaster]

you'll need to knock up a swirl pot for a Cortina the tank is so flat and wide it'll suffer from fuel starvation unless the tank is half full other wise.

My 24v Cortina build thread is here

retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=36179

don't do what i did and put the fuel pumps in the boot though, bad mistake that was. :S

[roundozo]

Lovely Build that is. Engine just about fits in. don't know if i'll go cosworth power though. I would have to change a lot more things on the car that are all fine at the mo.

Current rear axel is from a 2.8 capri so should be able to handle the 2.9. I have a type 9 gearbox as well so would that fit on the 2.9 or would i need to take the granads box too?

[popuptoaster]

type 9 will be fine on the 2.9 if you use the 2.8 flywheel and clutch and starter motor, pretty much all 2.9 grannies will be autos.

[Crallen]

I did the 2.9 conversion into my mk3 cortina last winter and its fairly straightforward really. The loom comes down to just a couple of wires for the live and earths and the running gear will be the same as the 2.8. Mine is aweful on fuel as the engine is quite highly modified but its still running on the standard management which cant cope! Megasquirt conversion is in the pipeline to sort this and up the power!!
Have a nearly finished pic....

[roundozo]

Well I've had a long hard think about this and I'm going to go for it!!

Going to sell the 2.8 I’ve got and eventually the 2.8 already in the car and I’m now looking for a BOA cosworth engine! Decided if I’m going to do it at all I may as well put something bad ass in

Found this on eBay
cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ford-Scorpio-Granarda-Cosworth-2-9-24V-Engine-A1-/110590197183?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19bfb07dbf

Would just need to find the electrics. Do you reckon there would be many (if any) cosworths in scrappy's with the ecu etc still available?

[Kai]

Find a Mk3 Granada 2.8 as a donor (upto '88 i think?) - they had EFi fitted to them, and the gear is a straight swap. Failing that - get hold of the MFI manifold & plenum, and machine it for regular, non-mechanical injectors

[popuptoaster]

Feb 24, 2011 11:22:27 GMT roundozo said:

Would just need to find the electrics. Do you reckon there would be many (if any) cosworths in scrappy's with the ecu etc still available?

Good plan, 24v in a cortina goes really well, its a pain trying to find just the ECU and wiring though, will probably cost you hundred quid if you can find one, lots of them get robbed and used to fit to the BOB lump into something else.

your much better off buying a whole 24v granny, especially as you can run the engine and make sure its ok first

Feb 24, 2011 11:28:13 GMT Kai said:

Find a Mk3 Granada 2.8 as a donor (upto '88 I think?) - they had EFi fitted to them, and the gear is a straight swap. Failing that - get hold of the MFI manifold & plenum, and machine it for regular, non-mechanical injectors

Efi granny very hard to find these days, and they are harder to find the spare parts for if you need them, had one in my XR4i they were designed for cleaner emmisions compared to the Mfi versions so not the best choice for a car modifier when the 2.9 is so cheap and common.

[roundozo]

Ok so I think I’ve found a donor car (1994 FORD GRANADA SCORPIO) as I’m going to go ahead with the 24v cosworth engine transplant.

Popuptoaster I wouldn’t mind some advice as your job on the Cortina looks ace.

So the problems I think I’m going to incur are;

Fuel tank – need fuel pump and swirl pot
Engine mounts? Current engine is 2.8 cologne, will the cosworth sit on these mounts?
Sump – looking at your thread it looks as though I can use my 2.8 sump on the cosworth so it fits? (Cortina was originally a 2.3 GL)
Exhaust manifold (near side) issue with the steering mechanism?
Radiator and fan – fit the granny rad to solve the space issue?
Alternator – need to find smaller one to fit (Nissan?)
Heater box – how did you mod it to get round the head?
Gearbox – did you use the auto? I’m planning on using a 5 speed type 9 for now. Will this fit and what bell housing would I need?

I'm hoping that I can use the gearbox and drive shaft I have in there so I can just connect to the cosworth. Am I correct in understanding that if I put the 2.8 flywheel and starter motor on the cosworth engine I can use the type 9? As I said though, what bell housing will fit. Oh the issues.

I hate to ask all these questions but I want a realistic idea of what I need to get ready to do all this work. How long did it all take too as I was kind of hoping to have this done for the classic ford show on the 4th and 5th of June. This will also be my first major engine transplant I’ve ever done. Scary times. All help and guidance would be awesome.

Thanks.

[popuptoaster]

Feb 24, 2011 16:56:28 GMT roundozo said:

Ok so I think I’ve found a donor car (1994 FORD GRANADA SCORPIO) as I’m going to go ahead with the 24v cosworth engine transplant.

Popuptoaster I wouldn’t mind some advice as your job on the Cortina looks ace.

So the problems I think I’m going to incur are;

Fuel tank – need fuel pump and swirl pot

Not a huge issue, various ways round this, use the pumps and wirng off the Cossie granny, you could fit get your tank altered for an internal swirl pot if you wanted, the plastic jobby from the inside of a Sierra tank will do

Engine mounts? Current engine is 2.8 cologne, will the cosworth sit on these mounts?
Sump – looking at your thread it looks as though I can use my 2.8 sump on the cosworth so it fits? (Cortina was originally a 2.3 GL)
Exhaust manifold (near side) issue with the steering mechanism?
If its on proper 2.3 mounts this lot will all be fine i think, mine had home made mounts and they were to low, ok for a 2.8 but not the bigger 24v


Radiator and fan – fit the granny rad to solve the space issue?
I think the granny rad will be to wide

Alternator – need to find smaller one to fit (Nissan?)
again you might get away with the granny one as you have the 2.3 mounts

Heater box – how did you mod it to get round the head?
If you pull the heater rad out of the heater box, you canchop a bit off and slide it back in again on a slightly different angle, a screw through the plastic will hold it back in again

Gearbox – did you use the auto? I’m planning on using a 5 speed type 9 for now. Will this fit and what bell housing would I need?

I used an MT75, the 24v though will go onto the type bits using the 2.8 flywheels and clutch etc, 24v will probably melt the box pretty quick though, don't forget you need a spigot bearing in the end of the crank

I'm hoping that I can use the gearbox and drive shaft I have in there so I can just connect to the cosworth. Am I correct in understanding that if I put the 2.8 flywheel and starter motor on the cosworth engine I can use the type 9? As I said though, what bell housing will fit. Oh the issues.

see above ;D

I hate to ask all these questions but I want a realistic idea of what I need to get ready to do all this work. How long did it all take too as I was kind of hoping to have this done for the classic ford show on the 4th and 5th of June. This will also be my first major engine transplant I’ve ever done. Scary times. All help and guidance would be awesome.

given that you are just taking one engine out, fitting the box to it and dropping it back in it could be done in a weekend if you have all the bits you need, exhaust will need modding to makte to the 24v, but other than that and the fuel tank and wiring its not really that much work, i did extra stuff to mine so it took longer.

Thanks.

[roundozo]

Thanks so much for all the advice and tips. Yeah i think the current 2.8 is on the original 2.3 mounts. So would you recommend the MT75 box then? Is that a manual? If using that box then I presume I'll need to alter the drive shaft like you did. Without sounding stupid, where and what is the splgot bearing and why do I need one?

once again thanks for the help and once the work starts I'll start a thread and keep you posted.

[popuptoaster]

spigot bearing goes in the end of the crank to support the input shaft of the gearbox, the 24v wont have one as it will be an auto, should only cost a couple of quid from a ford dealer, can get one for a manual 2.9 granny, or 2.9 4x4 sierra.

MT75 is a manual box, but getting one to fit the 24v is quite difficult in this country, most of the V6 ones are 4x4, you could always look into it later if your 24v starts eating geaboxes, but you can buy beefed up type 9's.

[roundozo]

Ok, that's some very helpful info. Think I'll stick with my type 9 for now then as it all fits nicely. Then I can save up for a strengthend one. Whilst putting the 2.8 flywheel, starter motor and clutch on tje 24v can I then use the type 9 bell housing? Does the 24v have the same connecting bolt holes?

I can't wait to get this project started. If you want to see the car its going in check out readers rides "mk4 cortina 2.8 v6". Can't send you the link as I'm on my phone, sorry.

[roundozo]

Actually is "1978 Ford cortina 2.8" That's my baby