enlighten me: panhard rods?!

[micrat]

i like to think my car knowledge is getting there by now, but these are an unknown entity to me!!!

when i was into my micras all the k11 boys (hello markbognor lol) used to rattle on about these and lowering, and all i picked up on (not really needing to know at the time, as i owned a k10) was if you lower a car which has such rear suspension, the rear beam sits to the left/right so you have 1 wheel outboard and 1 inboard, to a degree!!!

reason i ask is 1) curiousity and 2) i now own a starlet which runs the same set up, and would like to know for future reference what is required to get lows!!!

i know mr bognor made an adjustable one somehow?

have a pic of the new beasty on my old rover 220gti wheels!!!

[CIH]

A panhard rod limits the amount of lateral (side to side) movement of the axle/beam.


-It's main drawback is it forces the beam to move through an arch, rather than allowing a straight up & down motion. This can give strange handling charicteristics when a wheel hits a bump and the impact is carried over to the opposite wheel. It can also force the axle to shift laterally when a car is lowered, basically shifting the axle offcentre.

There are vasrious ways around these drawbacks, such as an adjustable 'rod to move it back square and more complex linkages for better axle location.

P11 Primeras had a trick 3rd linkage called a "scott russell linkage" which IIRC is unique.

[kee]

used on beam axles, they stop the axle from moving from side to side when going round corners.
they are attached to a point on the axle near one wheel and on the car near the other wheel. the longer the better as it has a bigger radius to travel through, which means less sideways movement.
a panhard rod means that with suspension movement (and lowering) the axle actually moves to the side slightly. so when you lower the car you need to put an in-situ adjuster in (from rally design) to allow you to shorten the rod as it will move it over to one side and cause arch clearance issues.

us fiesta boys struggle with em too

[ettorebugatti]

Just a matter of Phythagoras.

Looking good on the Rover wheels!

[micrat]

cheers guys! it really bugs me when i don't know about something on a car!!! it did look odd today when it was jacked up to swap the alloys, had some major tuck and camber going on!!! she's a fair way from being decked just yet, but at least i know the deal, ta!

[Seth]

Nov 28, 2011 20:48:20 GMT CIH said:

A panhard rod limits the amount of lateral (side to side) movement of the axle/beam.

.

Just to make the point that that is NOT a good example of how to fit one. It should be parallel to the road at ride height to minimise the sideways movement of the axle throughout suspension movement.

[markbognor]

On a K11 they are far from parrallel to the ground at stock height - they flatten out as its lowered and push the axle off centre. ^that does look pretty shonkey though, I particualy like how the radial travel is at at its maximum on the axle end.

I made one by welding a peice of tube to the body en bush housing, and a threaded insert into the axle end, then used a rose joint on the axle end. I never got round to fitting it and its burried in the shed somewhere. I "solved" the problem by using a wheel spacer on one side. I've also seen eccentric bushes used on one end to effectively shorten the panhard rod and bring the axle back to centre

[welshpug]

stick a pic up

how about modifying ti to a watts linkage?

[The Doctor]

you can get adjustable panhard rods for a Starlet. Whiteline makes them. not cheap, but a decent option if you can't weld/fabricate (like me, so i bought one for my Starlet

[markbognor]

Nov 29, 2011 13:52:21 GMT welshpug said:

stick a pic up

A chap on the micra forum has been turning them up from nylon - no idea what spec or how long they last.

No finished pic of the one i made but here's some progress,

[micrat]

didnt realise i had this many replies on the thread, thanks guys!!!

after a few months of running round at standard height ive finally decided to go for the chop, as i've sourced some tasty 13" wheels, so will have way more arch gap than with the rover rims!!!

if i could pester you for just 1 more time, I'm guessing if i only go -40mm etc it wont be an issue, as that could just be a car full of fat people or something so there must be some factory tolerance???

also, any way of measuring how far the axle has 'swung' after lowering, short of 4 wheel alignment etc? (which id get done anyway, once all was said and done)

cheers, mike

[kee]

if you know the angle the rod is mounted as standard and its full length then its easy to figure out the movement of the axle.
-40mm will still push the axle across, but then -40mm is not nearly enough of a drop

[CIH]

Feb 4, 2012 20:58:23 GMT micrat said:

didnt realise I had this many replies on the thread, thanks guys!!!

after a few months of running round at standard height ive finally decided to go for the chop, as i've sourced some tasty 13" wheels, so will have way more arch gap than with the rover rims!!!

if I could pester you for just 1 more time, I'm guessing if I only go -40mm etc it wont be an issue, as that could just be a car full of fat people or something so there must be some factory tolerance???

also, any way of measuring how far the axle has 'swung' after lowering, short of 4 wheel alignment etc? (which id get done anyway, once all was said and done)

cheers, mike

Bits of string possibily, but a proper alignment shop should be able to do it in like 10 mins and far more accurately.