1986 Toyota MR2 - an uncontrollable evacuation of the bowels

[Sweetpea]

Jun 3, 2016 23:25:54 GMT georgeb said:

Jun 3, 2016 22:57:50 GMT Sweetpea said:

In 1962 Forward thinking bloke, President Kennedy. Quite apart from the fact that Toyota didn't even start thinking about the MR2 until the mid '70s, how'd he know it'd be a hard project for me? Me? I wasn't even a twinkle in my daddies eye in 1962. The bloke must have been a genius. Or a fortune teller.
James

He can't have been that good or he'd have known I was waiting on a certain grassy knoll!

Top work as ever and reminds me, I need to have a prod down my sunroof (or moon-roof as they call them here) drains.

Good point well made about JFK. Hadn't thought of it like that.

Toyota call them Moon Roofs too. (Probably an eastern thing.) I've never made them work properly though. If I've managed to get my bare bum through the hole I can't reach the pedals. I must be doing it wrong.

Jun 4, 2016 10:06:26 GMT oukie said:

Jun 3, 2016 23:17:26 GMT varelse said:

Almost be worth extending that sunroof drain hose down and out of the sill completely?
What's the other side like, then?
Or are we not talking about that yet?

This is something that a lot of mk1 mr2 owners do, I did mention it a while back. Being a mk1 owner for almost 20 years I've found the best cure is, don't let it get wet lol. 

Oh yes, the roof drains are definitely coming out. And I'll probably put a drain in the spot weld seam too. I now have a cunning plan how to do it. Just need some 10mm OD tube...
Like I mentioned, that area rots on the T bar models too and they don't have sun roof drains - so there must be another source of water?

varelse you asked about the left side.
I've got a little USB camera on a long wire that I can poke into things for inspection purposes. I've never posted the pictures because they aren't that good but you get a general idea of whats going on.
The right side sill has a lot of rust in it. Not enough to cut it off just yet but it'll need doing. The left sill looks like it just came out of the factory.
The right box (the bit I've been working on above) has rotted out. The left has a scab but it's ok at the moment.
The structure around the right suspension hasn't rotted through yet but the seams have blown out so that'll all need doing. The left side seams are ok but it had that small patch put in.
And I poked the camera into the front chassis rails and neither side looks brilliant but not horrific.

So, generally the left side if better than the right.

James

[oukie]

I wonder if water gets in through the scuttle panel area, these are inaccessible.

[br00klyn99]

I've just spent a good afternoon and evening reading through this thread and I have to say the dedication in this project is truly incredible, I would have given up long ago! The attention to detail is fantastic, I can't wait to see this pass it's MOT. Looking forward to more!

[georgeb]

Jun 4, 2016 11:28:15 GMT Sweetpea said:

Toyota call them Moon Roofs too. (Probably an eastern thing.)

I think it has to do with the fact that it's only tolerable to have them open at night!

[varelse]

My old/current daily Ashtray has a leak somewhere that fills the passenger side door (or maybe this is a feature, I'm not sure).
With all the rain we just had it sounded like I had about .5L of water sloshing around in there.
Which doesn't concern me too much, except that I have expensive speakers in the door that I want to retain for the Cressida.
So if I brake too suddenly they probably get wet!

Those usb cameras are handy things.

[hairymel]

hey James - i have spent a good part of the morning reading your build thread and am slightly disappointed its not finished yet

nice work so far though

and a good read

[Sweetpea]

Sorry folks, I will reply. I've been a bit preoccupied looking at photos of richrolls rear end.
I probably should rephrase that.

[vulgalour]

It's mesmerising watching his large rear end go up and down, it really is.
I too should probably rephrase that.

[varelse]

It's like slow motion twerking, but with a worrying amount of stale air being expelled at the same time...

[Sweetpea]

Jun 4, 2016 11:36:48 GMT oukie said:

I wonder if water gets in through the scuttle panel area, these are inaccessible.

That's a brilliant and outstanding thought. Wrong, sadly, but brilliant anyway. I'll explain shortly.

Jun 4, 2016 22:13:59 GMT br00klyn99 said:

I've just spent a good afternoon and evening reading through this thread and I have to say the dedication in this project is truly incredible, I would have given up long ago! The attention to detail is fantastic, I can't wait to see this pass it's MOT. Looking forward to more!

Sorry to have wasted your day! Glad you enjoyed it though. The MOT will soon be with us...

Jun 4, 2016 23:49:29 GMT varelse said:

My old/current daily Ashtray has a leak somewhere that fills the passenger side door.

Shouldn't there be holes in the bottom to let the water out? I guess if you leave it eventually there will be holes.

Jun 5, 2016 12:32:55 GMT hairymel said:

hey James - i have spent a good part of the morning reading your build thread and am slightly disappointed its not finished yet

My dear chap, I'm slightly disappointed that I've been at it for 5 years and I've barely started!
If I may be so bold, what's happening with your Sunbeam? I wouldn't dare pick favorites on here, there are too many cracking cars and projects, but your Sunbeam and bstardchild 's couple of cars (just greedy if you ask me) would be right up there.

Jun 7, 2016 17:15:21 GMT vulgalour said:

It's mesmerising watching his large rear end go up and down, it really is.
I too should probably rephrase that.

Nope, I do believe you hit the nail squarely on the head there!

Jun 8, 2016 3:16:43 GMT varelse said:

It's like slow motion twerking, but with a worrying amount of stale air being expelled at the same time...

I'm so innocent I had to Google 'twerking'. No really - I'm still a virgin you know. Or at least I used to be.

[Sweetpea]

So the question I've been pondering is this…

Why did the box section behind the front wheel rot out? Mine was full of water for a fair amount of it's life. Where did the water come from?
Well, on my car it's easy. The sun roof drains.
But the T bar cars rot there too and they don't have sun roof drains - there must be another source of water.

Then...

Jun 4, 2016 11:36:48 GMT oukie said:

I wonder if water gets in through the scuttle panel area, these are inaccessible.

Well there's a thought… Since I have the box cut open at the moment it's an easy one to prove.
Just chuck a bean can full of water down the heater vents, here…




And see where it comes out.
Not into the box section, thankfully. It comes out here…




Mostly out of a drain at the big blue arrow, but some comes out of the seam at the red arrows.
Don't you find it incredible that Toyota painted these coloured arrows on the car and got them all in the right places for me to chat about them 30 years later?

So that disproves oukie 's idea. But while I was ferreting about under the arch I spotted a clip on inspection panel.




Well you just have to clip the panel off and poke your fingers in the hole, don't you? It'd be rude not to.
What's in there? Well it appears to be connected to the scuttle area and it contains enough wet compost to grow a small forrest. How it's not rotten is a mystery to me. The hose pipe will be going in there to flush the rubbish out.

I hereby name this place "Oukie's Mud Hole".

James

[oukie]

Oukie' mud hole lol. If you remove the front wings entirely, you get easy access to those little panel inspection thingies, big job to remove the wings mind.
Going back to the scuttle, if you remove those plastic mesh things from the base of the windscreen, have a good look in the scuttle area, where the wiper assembly lives, it's like a little tunnel between the bulk heads, these can rot out and are next to impossible to repair without cutting a bigger hole just to access the front.

[darrenh]

do the T bar glass roof panels form a 100% seal? just wondering mind you, it seems almost every area that could get wet, even from thermal cycling condensation, has a drain.

[hairymel]

Jun 9, 2016 21:44:40 GMT Sweetpea said:

My dear chap, I'm slightly disappointed that I've been at it for 5 years and I've barely started!
If I may be so bold, what's happening with your Sunbeam? I wouldn't dare pick favorites on here, there are too many cracking cars and projects, but your Sunbeam and bstardchild 's couple of cars (just greedy if you ask me) would be right up there.

5 years is nothing , as long as you are improving the situation it's all good 

 sadly in my case the 'replacement' sunbeam project has been pushed to the back of the unit.

 for a horrifying amount of time 

however in the grand scheme of things i have one more race car to build and then, hopefully,

it will be time to restart work on 'a' sunbeam but not necessarily the 'scottish' car   

[oukie]

Jun 10, 2016 15:58:28 GMT darrenh said:

do the T bar glass roof panels form a 100% seal? just wondering mind you, it seems almost every area that could get wet, even from thermal cycling condensation, has a drain.

Ha ha, good one ^^^^^

The answer to your question is twofold, yes there are a plethora of drains, which is fine unless they get blocked with detritus bits of leaves tree curse word etc, or if covered in salt from gritted roads and seasides etc, 

As to the seals sealing 100% this is no, I've owned Mr2's for pushing twenty years and the tbar seals have always been an issue, my first mk1 leaked, my mk2  leaked, when I bought my mk2it was only a few years old and I bought it from the first owner, she'd had it back several times under warranty to get the seals looked at/replaced etc, built in leak tbh. 

I have new everything on my tbar including replacing the retained bolts that hold it all down, main seals eccentric rods etc etc, still leaks if you park on a slightly down ward slope, yet perfect to even my little karcher washer on the level, frustrating as hell. The best mk1 to get to cancel out this issue is the tin top , but rarer than a rare piece of rareness they are.

[darrenh]

conjecture really. was just wondering of the T bar also had drains down the A pillars

[oukie]

Jun 10, 2016 22:53:45 GMT darrenh said:

conjecture really. was just wondering of the T bar also had drains down the A pillars

They do actually, when the glass panels are off, if your standing at the side of the car looking at the a piller side as the roof curves slightly down to the edge there are little holes in the channels of the tbar rubbers that funnel the water into the a pillers. It's not the same setup as he coupe but there are drains, just harder to see.

[Sweetpea]

Jun 11, 2016 9:43:37 GMT oukie said:

Jun 10, 2016 22:53:45 GMT darrenh said:

conjecture really. was just wondering of the T bar also had drains down the A pillars

They do actually, when the glass panels are off, if your standing at the side of the car looking at the a piller side as the roof curves slightly down to the edge there are little holes in the channels of the tbar rubbers that funnel the water into the a pillers. It's not the same setup as he coupe but there are drains, just harder to see.

Oh that's interesting. And explains a lot. I stand corrected.
I have one more question then. I'll bring it up later when I've snapped a photo.

[Sweetpea]

Jun 10, 2016 21:22:43 GMT hairymel said:

It will be time to restart work on 'a' sunbeam but not necessarily the 'scottish' car   

I shall look forward to it. In fact I'm already dribbling down my cardigan in anticipation. Or it could be old age...



Back to the car.

Sun roof drains. I've had an idea…
The bit of the car I'm currently chopping apart happens to be the bit that the sun roof drains into. Now, only the drivers side has rotted away so I've come up with a plan while I can see what I'm doing that I should be able to do on the passenger side where I'm working blind.

Here's the idea.
There are 2 rubber bungs in the bottom of the car behind the front wheel. The back one of them is very close to where the drain enters the box section. If only I could remove the bung and extend the pipe through the hole.

Something like this…




…but where I can't see what I'm doing.

Pull the existing drain up into the footwell. I happen to have a piece of tube of about the same size (about 9mm inside diameter). Working from underneath push it up through the hole at about 45 degrees pointing towards the side of the car. After a bit of faffing about it pops up through the hole into the foot well.




Here they are (this is the left side so you really can do it blind).
The dirty brown one is the drain from above, the clear one is my new one from below.
In Halfords I found these connectors.




They are a good fit in my tube but a shade slack in the old drain. Easily fixed though…




A couple of turns of copper wire (cut from some twin and earth) twisted round with pliers. Being copper it won't rust.

Lastly the pipe is pulled back down and trimmed off under the car.




Job more or less done. I'll seam seal the tube into the floor of the car to hold it and to stop mud getting in. And if it does come apart it still drains into the sill so it's no worse than it was.
I'll do the right side when the welding is done.

James

[georgeb]

Neatly done, James, neatly done.

I'm going to direct the new guy with the XJS over here. I think he can learn much.