Garage heating, what do you guys use?

[alfaboy]

Fella's,
I need some heating in my garage for working on my car / bike over winter and need some assistance. .

I have a 20' x 10' brick garage with a 8" thick concrete roof, the garage walls are back filled outside with soil to about 3/4 height so are kind of insulated. the garage is only just over 6ft high.

What can i use as an "on all the time" heater to stop condensation and warm it up a little?

I have electric in there.

Is it worth insulating the concrete roof inside at all?

The garage door is sheet steel and is insulated with kingspan and draught strip.

Any advice would be great,
Cheers,
Daz.

[composimmonite]

Heating constantly means either gas or electric which will work out quite expensive. Electric will produce dry heat whereas gas produces condensation. Obviously wood / coal fired not suitable due for the need 24/7. No idea therefore what would be best for you.
I have an electric patio heater that is great for working outside as it heats you and not the air. For the garage I've a small blown heater as well as a radiant - both LPG and running off a 47kg bottle. When I build a workshop / shed behind the garage the intention is to have a solid fuel burner (mainly coal as doubt I'll be able to get much free wood) because of condensation on my lathe and milling machine that gas produces.
Paraffin is also an option but again condensation produced - something like one gallon of water for every gallon of paraffin burnt !
If you don't mind the condensation that a greenhouse paraffin or gas heater will probably work out the cheapest to run constantly but will only take off the chill rather than raising the temp too much.
Joking aside traditional granddad underwear (long sleeved vest and long "johns") do a great job of keeping you warm as I found out years ago whilst riding motorbikes in winter.

Paul H

[alfaboy]

Thanks for the reply,

The reason i'm thinking on all the time is the garage suffers with condensation to the ceiling thats bad enough for it to almost rain in the garage.
So that rules out gas / parafin really.

Would the insulation on the ceiling prevent that do you think?

[composimmonite]

Insulating the roof would help massively with condensation. Seeing it's concrete then there are numerous choices. You could batten up, add fibreglass then clad in plasterboard. Polystyrene tiles aren't really to be recommended as they burn. I am going to do my garage roof with Grafo Therm as it's steel but same produce can be used on concrete -
www.grafoproducts.co.uk/index.htm
Probably best would be Kingspan type board www.secondsandco.co.uk/

Paul H

[cortinaman]

It sounds like you have two different requirements:
1. Stop condensation.
2. Warming up the garage to make it a nicer place to work.

They probably won't be solved by the same thing. Condensation, is caused by moist air condensing on a cold surface. Usually, the moisture in the air is caused by people breathing - but in your case, a lot could be coming through the walls if they are retaining a lot of damp soil and are not waterproofed. Also, as the door is insulated and sealed there is nowhere for the moisture to go.

I suggest getting some ventilation into the garage - perhaps some air bricks at the top of the walls, and some grilles in the door. Heating on its own isn't going to fix the problem. Once you've got the condensation sorted, you can apply heating just when you want to work in there.

I would be careful about insulating inside the roof and walls as it won't cure the condensation, which will carry on happening behind the insulation!

hope this helps a bit.

Cortinaman

[composimmonite]

Dec 9, 2013 13:43:33 GMT cortinaman said:

I would be careful about insulating inside the roof and walls as it won't cure the condensation, which will carry on happening behind the insulation!

hope this helps a bit.

Cortinaman

Condensation is caused by hot air meeting cold surface. If you insulate properly then the heat can't get to the cold surface so condensation won't be formed between the insulation and the walls.
Damp on the other hand could be a problem of the outer surface of the wall, covered by soil, isn't waterproofed. Might be worth making an exploratory dig into soil to see how damp proofing was originally made.

Paul H

[alfaboy]

Guys, thanks for your help so far.
I have two air bricks in there, one at the top of opposing corners of the garage.
I think some of the moisture is coming from the walls if I'm honest, the garage was built in the fifties so i imagine the damp proofing is non existent.
However, the garage is very well built and i can't really dig out the sides to see what proofing is there.
I'm thinking i could put an extractor in one of the air bricks to draw air across from the other one and see if this airflow would help dry the ceiling.
That way i would only need heating on while I'm in there?

[jaykay]

Dec 8, 2013 19:47:50 GMT composimmonite said:

When I build a workshop / shed behind the garage the intention is to have a solid fuel burner (mainly coal as doubt I'll be able to get much free wood) because of condensation on my lathe and milling machine that gas produces.

Paul H

start becoming friends with all you local building/plumbing/electrical wholesalers etc.

we heat our house pretty much all day long with old pallets from the electrical wholesalers, and they burn well.

[composimmonite]

Dec 9, 2013 21:54:46 GMT alfaboy said:

Guys, thanks for your help so far.
I have two air bricks in there, one at the top of opposing corners of the garage.
I think some of the moisture is coming from the walls if I'm honest, the garage was built in the fifties so i imagine the damp proofing is non existent.
However, the garage is very well built and i can't really dig out the sides to see what proofing is there.
I'm thinking i could put an extractor in one of the air bricks to draw air across from the other one and see if this airflow would help dry the ceiling.
That way i would only need heating on while I'm in there?

I suspect you have a damp garage rather than one suffering from just condensation
If the damp is getting in through the sides covered in soil then you are "on a hiding to nothing" unless you tackle that aspect before insulating or heating. You could get an industrial dehumidifier but running costs would be astronomical.

Paul H

[grumpy]

I heat my garage by consuming kale ,brussel sprouts , mackerel and copious amounts of guiness . Works well but the fumes are strong.

[composimmonite]

Just been out to my garage. It's concrete panels with steel roof. The facias are missing at present so excellent air flow. Everything metal is dripping with moisture

Paul h

[alfaboy]

Its depressing isn't it fella!

I'm sure there is an element of damp in the garage due to its construction but it can be made better.

The cold air is condensing on the concrete ceiling and making lots of water, if i get rid of the cold air it would be a nice place to be!
I'm going to put an extractor fan in one of the air bricks to actively draw air from the other and across the garage to try and keep the air moving.

Then i reckon a stove of some type to warm the garage while i'm in there + the residual heat should keep it fairly dry, i'll insulate the ceiling once its dry then.

Thanks for your input too mate

[pauly22]

I'd try something like this

www.neweysonline.co.uk/dimplex-fan-heater-wall-mounted-white-2kw-242mm-x-229mm-x-109mm/1050157585/ProductInformation.raction

All the portable cabins on the works sites I work on usually have then in, there on all day and do warm up the cabins

Not too expensive either, worth a try to see how it goes.

[composimmonite]

When I had a greenhouse (will have another when garden landscaped) one thing I came across was an idea for a heat sink. Basically I got an old storage radiator off Freecycle. The plan was to build it into a box and stack the radiator blocks inside (they have spacers to separate them) and using a computer fan suck hot air from the top of the greenhouse then blow it into the box so slowly the blocks got hot. The fan was to be run off a small solar panel. Obviously when sun went in the fan would stop and heat could then be released. Not much more complicated than that. Similar idea could be used in the garage. Computer fans use a lot less power than a mains extractor unit so several could be left running continuously. Drain pipe could be used as ducting to "suck" from the middle of the garage rather than just around the airbrick area. If you have heat from say a gas bottle wood or coal burner then stacking storage radiator blocks on top would then give off heat when fire goes out.

Paul h

[mantamutilator79]

My garages are fairly new (about 12 -15 years old) and are prefabbed concrete panels. The roofs were corrugated concrete sheets, which were similar in shape & design to the old asbestos roofing sheets. Every Winter when it was damp outside, the inside of the roof was literally dripping with water and as you say, it was like raining in there!!!

When funds allowed, I ripped the whole lot off and replaced the entire roofs with pressure treated 4" x 2" supports and topped them off with 8' x4' OSB boards with a couple of layers of top felt. No more drips after that, but it still gets a bit damp as the wall panels are un-insulated concrete. I have started to clad the inside with some more OSB wooden panels, which has made quite a difference. If I fire up the Clarke Little Devil gas heater, it does produce more condensation, but I make sure it is used just to take the chill off. Future concept would be a wood burner from Machine Mart.

Pete

[blackbart]

hi mate, i had the same problem and solved it in an unusual way after talking with an old man down the pub. he suggested a greenhouse heater. but he did say make sure its a parwin 3kw heater (british made) not chinese rubbish. they have a seperate lead as well with the thermostat attatched ,so you can set it in increments of 1 degree at a time, up to 30 degrees if i remember right. the only problem is they went out of business a few years back, so you will have to keep a lookout on ebay etc. if you google these PARWIN 3KW heaters you will see peoples comments, THEY JUST NEVER BREAK DOWN!!!
a nice one will set you back around 80/100 but worth every penny. i found one 2 years ago and use in my 9x18 garage and its the dogs bo###x.
they are made to be left on in outside conditions and so very very safe. heres a link to one i seen the other week on ebay, because i will still buy another as backup. it was a bit rusty but still made 60 odd quid, but i missed it. they do come up now and then, but with winter here i suspect all the gardeners will be looking for them. heres the link.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200985521108?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
good luck mate ,and let me know how you get on.
gary.

[optimusprime]

I hate to say this, but to get a naturally dry garage, you're going to have to get the soil away from the walls.
I know this from experience,the soil will just leach/trap moisture in to the walls,and you will never get it 'dry'.

I had to remove 2 eight yard skips full of soil from around my garage.
No matter what i did it was always damp in there until i got rid of the soil.
It took ages for the brickwork to dry out.

[guz]

thermals, why warm a space when you only need to warm yourself ?

[alfaboy]

I hear you with the thermals fella, but the reason i need to get rid of the condensation in there is because i have my bike project partly built and its getting wet!

My tools and anything metal are constantly damp too.
Bizarrely the walls are dry to the touch, no matter how wet it is outside.