1966 Ex BRS Austin VAK 100 "Noddy" van. Shack building.

[glenanderson]

I've documented this saga on other fora but, as we all know, part of blogging this kind of stuff is to get feedback, encouragement and support from likeminded idiots enthusiasts, as well as simply recording it for posterity and a couple of those other places are now tumble-weeded dusty deserts and I feel like I'm just talking to myself. I've not found a forum dedicated to the restoration of classic commercials; those projects I have stumbled across have been on a mixture of other vehicle enthusiast fora and it seems that the number of members and their associated interests are more important than the actual main remit of the forum. So, as this bit of the interwebz appears to be populated by nutters enthusiasts of a similar cloth to me, I'll post it here too..


So; part one... ;D

Bit of back-story, for those who don't already know me from elsewhere (with a bit of editing as facts have come to light over the last year)...

When I was a kid, my parents bought a small plot of land to build a house on. My dad needed somewhere dry and secure to keep his tools etc. whilst the house was being built; preferably something cheap, easily erected and disposed of once it was no longer needed. He had two mates at the local BRS depot in Wincheap, Canterbury; one the workshop manager, the other the general manager (not my Uncle Ken as I first thought, he was workshop manager at Dover Depot). One of them, according to my mum, suggested that one of the parcel vans he had been charged with scrapping might be ideal. So one was duly commandeered, the choice of which was down to the unlikely coincidence of it bearing the registration JOY, which is my sister's name.

It did sterling service as a shed for several years, here it is in the background, with me in front on another of dad's toys (a Thwaites dumper), circa 1972.



It wasn't very old when it arrived with us, but I'm lead to believe they had hard and short lives. Whilst my dad never used it for work, or indeed I don't think ever drove it other than the short distance from the depot to our home, I spent hours and hours in the driving seat and "drove" all over the world in it in my imagination.

Here's another pic, probably from about 1976ish again with it in the background.



And this is a library pic I found on the web of one of the handful of survivors.



One day I got home from school and it was gone. My dad had passed it on to the local farmer to use for storage. I was totally gutted.

A few years passed and I found myself "working" at aforesaid farm, charging around on a silencer-less motorcycle keeping the birds out of the fruit trees. The lorry was still there, albeit slowly dropping to pieces. I harboured notions of rescuing it, but without the funds, space or technical ability it was only a pipe-dream.

A few more years have since passed. Decades in fact. It has always been in the back of my mind, but space and funds have always been against me. That and the fact I knew it was likely to be very badly deteriorated. I have always fancied a classic commercial though, and like the idea of the "truck-rods" that enterprising sorts across the pond make up out of bits and bobs of old wagons.

Fast-forward to last summer and I heard that the farmer had died. As he was a contemporary of my own father, he must have been at the least in his late eighties (my dad would be 92 were he still alive today), and he was the sort never to throw anything whatever away. I also heard that his son was continuing to run the farm, but was having a bit of a tidy up, so decided I'd better get up there and see if there was anything salvageable before it all went to be turned into tin cans. So up I went and visited the farm to have a look at the remains...

Remains is the right word! Whilst the body has all gone, the chassis/engine/box/axles/front guards/steering etc. are all still there.







Chassis, which is the important bit, despite the nettles, thistles, brambles and other spiky/stingy curse word, was perfectly salvageable. Spring shackle pivots still have grease on them, chassis rails appeared sound, axles, springs etc. look OK and the steering still works. The engine is locked solid though (no surprise there), and what is left looks a bit forlorn. The remains of the alloy sheets from the body are laying along side it, but 95% of the timber framework has long gone as has the fibreglass roof.

When I asked him what he wanted for it his reply was "if you want it, and you'll do something with it rather than cut it up for scrap, you can have it". When pressed, he added, "buy my mum some flowers".

So, a new project hove to on the horizon.

I knew that the wood and alloy body of the Noddy van would likely be well beyond saving, so the fact that it had disappeared is actually a blessing as a parcel van wasn't really going to be the most practical of vehicles to add to my fleet.

My master plan is to replace the current engine and gearbox (a 5.1 litre 6-cylinder diesel BMC unit and 4-speed) with a 5.9 litre Cummins 6B and five-speed from a Leyland 45. I will likely have to scratch-build a cab and plan a bonneted "normal control" configuration, with a flat-bed rear body. Although they were known as vans, they are actually 9 tons gross, so the chassis is fairly substantial. I'm currently leaning towards the idea of buying a complete mid-90s Leyand-Daf 45 to break for it's major components as, if I'm careful/lucky I can get something with the right engine (150 or 180 bhp), the right gearbox (a five-speeder), a flatbed rear body and maybe a HIAB as well for around the £2-2.5K mark, and be able to recoup £1K or so of that back selling off and scrapping all the bits I don't need.

[glenanderson]

Part two...

Having given it a great deal of thought, I'm currently leaning toward keeping the appearance of the new cab as close to the original as possible, but just a small one without the box body behind it. I'm not massively keen on replicating the wooden framework as it is both structurally less than ideal and a potential future maintenance nightmare. I plan a steel framed affair, likely with slam doors rather than sliding ones, with three across the front seating and a sleeper bunk and storage. I need to source or make lots of stuff though, whichever way I jump.

I had a day off earlier in the year so decided to go follow up a lead on another Noddy van that I had heard was lying not too far from me. Armed with directions furnished by a complete stranger on the internet, OS maps on my phone and the dog as an excuse to be wandering around the countryside uninvited, I made my way to the spot marked "X".

When I got there I found this:



It is complete. Well, ish. Anything glass has been broken, and it's missing it's radiator and a few odds and sods, but there's a whole lot more of it left than on my one!

To be honest, the timber frame is highly likely to be past saving without a huge amount of work, and you'd likely have to completely dismantle it in order to make it sound. However, it's given me some fairly detailed pics, even though I couldn't get too close, and it would be a treasure trove of spares if I can negotiate it's purchase.

I went back shortly after to the abandoned one and put a note through all the doorways nearby asking if anyone knew anything about it. That has gleaned a name, but no contact details. A land registry search shows the land to be registered to somebody else, but with the same surname, so the next step I suppose is a letter to the first, C/O the second and see where that gets me.

[glenanderson]

Part three...

Fast-forward to earlier this month. It dawned on me that very nearly a year had passed since my initial visit to the farm, so I decided to set a deadline to get the chassis moved to my house before the end of the month, come hell or high water.

Then I had a bit of bad news: a text from the farmer, to say that his labourers moved it the day before thinking they were being helpful, and that there was "some damage". and he asked me to come and see it to decide if I still want it.

After a fretty couple of days, I managed to spend a morning at the farm, surveying the damage. I shouldn't really be cross, as Craig is giving me the lorry, and I have had months to sort out moving it, but I am a bit gutted. I really wish he'd let me know it needed moving, or asked me to move it for him as whoever did it did so with the minimum amount of sympathy I can imagine.

The front mudguards had both fallen off; fortunately damage to them was minimal, but what remained of their mountings is toast. The sump was holed with a forklift, used to drag it out sideways, but I'd never planned on rebuilding it in any case. It just means it's scrap, rather than something I might have been able to sell on. A lot of the surviving cab floor and all of the steps both sides are gone, as is the rearmost loaded timber (which was rotten, but there the last time I visited; all of which would have ended up in the skip, but would have been valuable patterns.

The worst bit though, was that the same forklift managed to bend the rearmost section of chassis, back from the last crossmember. I should be able to straighten it. It's not a biggie, but it's a whole lot of work for a moment's carelessness.

Pictures:













I managed to remove the front wings and remains of the bumper, and brought them home, along with a few bits of the original bodyside panelling. I don't plan reusing much, if any, of the panels, so left the majority for Craig to weigh in. I've kept the one bearing the unladen weight marking and the two that have "Canterbury" written across them. I can feel some "shed art" coming on with those, and the rest I'll reuse if I can for small bits of panelling etc.. To be honest, most of it wasn't worth saving anyway.



With the wings removed, and the chassis finally out from among all the brambles, I got my first proper look at it. It is saveable, just, but really wants doing before very much longer. One of the crossmembers is a little thin and would really benefit from being replaced rather than plated, and the front chassis dumb iron near the passenger side front spring mount is pretty bad. This is the area I mean:



You can't really see in that pic, heres one from above/inside:



It is, to be brutally honest, past any sensible saving. As I'm a hopeless idiot not sensible, the only caveat I've put on taking it is that I can get it transported for less than I'd get for it if I cut my losses and weighed it in. I'd guess there's about three tons of scrap there, which would see about £350 ish, so that's my limit, give or take. I've been in touch with a local haulier that has a lorry with a big enough HIAB to load and unload it, and I'm waiting to hear back from them once they've seen the pictures of it and of the access at the farm and here.

The other stumbling block will be registering it. The old logbook hasn't turned up anywhere, so I'm going to have to throw myself on the mercies of the DVLA to get it registered. I will have to be doing all of that before I lay a spanner on it; I don't want to put a load of time and effort into it, only to find it ends up on a "Q"!

I also think that I'll have to make a proper effort to track down the owner of the other one nearby, as it looks like I may well need chassis cuts to make a proper job of repairing this one. It might be that it makes more real sense to use this one for spares instead if the other is better structurally, particularly if it has a logbook.

The good news is that all the wheels went round with no dramas, as did the prop. The steering works and the springs and axles are all OK as far as I can tell.

Whatever, things were on the move at last.

[glenanderson]

Part four...

Had a call back from the transport company who, having seen pictures of the collection and delivery locations, and of the chassis, quoted me £325 + the dreaded VAT to move it for me. Worked out at £390.

So I booked them.

Thursday last was D-Day.

It all kicked off a little earlier than planned, so no breakfast, just a pork pie from the garage on the way, and arrival at the farm at 08:30.

To find this tidy bit of kit arrived:



And soon had the chassis strung up from a set of chains:



Up she goes!





Round a bit:



Gently does it:



And down:

[glenanderson]

Fast forward the strapping, trundling down the A2, moving neighbour's cars and manoeuvring in the road and down the drive:



Up she comes:





And into place:



Much kudos to Mick and Dave, who put it exactly where I wanted it, without any need to resort to winching or any fuss whatsoever.



Mother-in-law is less than impressed, but hey ho, what can you do?

[glenanderson]

Part five...

Up to date. ;D



A willing "helper"; Finlay, age 5, (nearly 6).



All wrapped up, safe and sound.



There's been no joy in the hunt for the logbook, so I'll have to go down the "age-related" route via an authorised club and a V765 form (The Historic Commercial Vehicle Society looks favourite), although I have no official documentation and no concrete proof if ID beyond the attached pictures and the original registration number. Bit of a ball-ache, but the current state of the truck at least means that all the original components that make up it's identity in the eyes of the DVLA are all present and correct. An age-related "D" plate is better than no plate at all, if I can't get the original reallocated. The recent changes within the DVLA mean nobody can tell me for sure how it's going to be viewed by authority, so I think the best course of action is to do nothing with it at all until it's been inspected and a decision has been made. I don't want to put time and money into it if my efforts are going to be rewarded by generating difficulties with the DVLA, or if they mean it is harder to prove it is what it is.

So the next step is to get some photos printed off and some letter writing done. I've still shed-loads of work to do on the house, which I've promised Sarah will take priority, so the most the lorry is going to get in the immediate future is maybe a squirt of clear waxoyl to prevent any further decay.

I have been made aware of several others lying in scrapyards around the country (none close though) and have put some feelers out for spares or purchase of a complete donor. I can't do anything more though until I have my hardstanding done and I've got an answer one way or the other from the DVLA about getting it a V5. If I can't get mine registered, then I'll go all-out to secure a better donor that has paperwork.

As ever, any comments, good or bad, are most welcome. If you know of one lying abandoned in a field anywhere, please let me know. Better still if you know anyone wanting to move such a thing on to an enthusiastic new owner, please pass on my details. ;D

[glenanderson]

And a final note, like I said at the top, I've got parallel threads running on a couple of other forums, but mainly to keep friends I've made there in the loop with the project. I've not found a forum dedicated to commercials, so spreading it about a bit seems a good idea. I've had some invaluable help and suggestions from a VW forum I visit, as well as a Raleigh Bomber one, so it pays to take the time to copy/paste it around!

I've seen the Goddess transporter on here, he's done a cracking job of it hasn't he? The reception he has had following the build is what has inspired me to join here. ;D

The main issue with Noddy vans is that they were built really cheaply, quickly and down to a weight (tiny fuel tank as they were only away from the depot for a day, didn't carry a spare wheel, body made from deal, ply and sheet ally, no passenger seating etc. etc. ). This means their working lives were short, and their structure never meant to last more than a few years. My skills are more in the welding/fabrication line than carpentry and I'm planning a steel framed cab rather than a wooden one; as much for safety as anything else, although durability and ease of construction (for me at any rate) are also key considerations.

Been on nights all last night, and off the next few days. I'll get next to nothing done today as I'm too tired, but as I need to avoid sleeping I'll take the opportunity to get a letter off to the Historic commercial Vehicle Society and get the ball rolling with the registration/V5 issue.

All the best, Glen.

[composimmonite]

You know the original reg - JOY430D - OY is London (North-West). So try and get a copy of the licencing area's records and that, armed with verification from a DVLA recognised club, should either get number reinstated or an age related plate.
I got a copy of the records for one of my bikes last year and it cost me £20 from the Chester office that has the archives.

Paul H

[grifterkid]

This is pretty much amazing...!!! I have a feeling this will make Noah's building of the Ark look like putting together some flat pack cupboards...! Good luck, please do keep us posted every step of the way...

[Clement]

Bookmarked!! That's quite an adventure you have ahead of you I'm not sure it's that relevant but you can also read yoeddynz's thread about his housetruck, he built a steel structure on a flatbed to make it an RV. It makes for a good read, too!

Good luck with the registration process, I'm sure you'll manage to get it done.

[Xenocide]

Wow looks like a great (and brave!) project. Subscribed!

Thanks for joining and taking the time to post .

[glenanderson]

Cheers Gentlemen, thanks for the welcome!

Sept 29, 2014 8:52:32 GMT composimmonite said:

You know the original reg - JOY430D - OY is London (North-West). So try and get a copy of the licencing area's records and that, armed with verification from a DVLA recognised club, should either get number reinstated or an age related plate.
I got a copy of the records for one of my bikes last year and it cost me £20 from the Chester office that has the archives.

Paul H

I thought that "OY" was a Croydon registration? I got as far as discovering that Croydon records had been destroyed and given up on that line of enquiry. I'll have a google about and check because, if it is North West London and the records still exist, then it will save me loads and loads of aggro!

[darrenh]

welcome on over glen (same DarrenH incase you were wondering !)

genuinely look forward to your updates. no tumble weeds on here and literally zero chance of your project being out of place, hero points go a long way

[eternaloptimist]

Great back story to this one! I'd love to do a commercial. I keep looking at Bedford TK's and stroking my chin. Not sure I'd get away with it domestically though....

[glenanderson]

Cheers for the positive comments gents! 

I wish the chap from the Historic Commercial Vehicle Society I've just been talking to was as enthusiastic. He was adamant I've no chance of getting the DVLA to re-register it until it's been restored, and wouldn't entertain the thought of attempting to do so beforehand...   I'm a little disappointed as I know that the Land-Rover series 2 club have got projects re-registered in the past. I definitely don't want to get going on this without documentation as the potential for financial disaster is too great. 

I've drafted a letter to the only other vaguely suitable body listed in the DVLA's V765 scheme contact list, the British Commercial Vehicle Museum Trust, to see what they say. If they're similarly negative then I don't think there's anybody else on the list that would have the necessary "expertise" to satisfy the DVLA. If that's the case, given the chassis I have is in need of a lot of work, I may have to put head before heart and look for a donor with both identity and a better chassis, and start from there instead... 

A shame, but better to find out now than down the line I suppose.

Whatever; I shall not be shelving this. 

[jasb]

Good luck with that mate. It would be fantastic to see another one of these back on the road.

www.flickr.com/photos/boo66/9432518730/

Here's another VA from Flickr

[fr€$h&m1nt¥]

Lovely back story to this and nice you've got it back, bookmarked for progress.

Out of interest does it matter if it's on a Q plate once restored? You know it's the same vehicle at heart.

www.wolfbane.com/vreg.htm website suggests that OY is Croydon for 1962 onwards and NW London 1974-2001 so looks like you were right. The only other reference I can test the validity of that site is that DH is correctly set to Walsall which is the only one I definitely know.

`Old' system (1962) `New' system (?1974-2001)
----------------------------------------------------------------
OY Croydon London NW

[glenanderson]

Sept 29, 2014 15:25:42 GMT fr€$h&m1nt¥ said:

Lovely back story to this and nice you've got it back, bookmarked for progress.

Out of interest does it matter if it's on a Q plate once restored? You know it's the same vehicle at heart.

www.wolfbane.com/vreg.htm website suggests that OY is Croydon for 1962 onwards and NW London 1974-2001 so looks like you were right. The only other reference I can test the validity of that site is that DH is correctly set to Walsall which is the only one I definitely know.

`Old' system (1962) `New' system (?1974-2001)
----------------------------------------------------------------
OY Croydon London NW

Cheers, I hope to be able to report some progress!

As to the "Q" plate issue, I'm afraid, once again, nobody can give me a definite answer, but yes, it looks like it could present a major hurdle. It is over 7.5 tons so, as a "Q", would be regarded as needing stuff like side and rear underrun protection, lighting and signage to current C & U regs, seatbelts (not a bad idea anyway, but I'd rather they were there because I chose to fit them rather than being compelled), emissions, braking performance etc. etc. The main problem though, is that it would need to be fitted with a tachograph and I would have to keep detailed logs of my driving hours. My day job is driving a train, and this means that - mad though it sounds - I can't drive a train through the week, then drive a tacho equipped vehicle at the weekend because I fall foul of the working time directive. More crucially, if I did drive a tacho equipped vehicle at the weekend during my "weekly rest" from work, I couldn't drive a train afterwards;something that my employer would doubtless look unfavourably upon. Heaven forbid I should have any kind of incident at work and it subsequently become apparent that I had "insufficient rest", the book that would be thrown at me would be huge. If, however, the truck is correctly recognised as a 1966 machine I don't need a tacho or to keep records.

I know. Mad.

Like I said, I really can't contemplate the time and expense the resto will take if I can't be sure of it's standing in the eyes of the law once it is finished. I might be more confident if I were planning to faithfully recreate the original van body, and if I was going to keep the original engine and gearbox; but because I plan changing them, I don't think I dare take the chance.

If my chassis was mint, and in need of only a sandblast and paint, and the engine could be persuaded to run for a bit, then I might feel differently; but it really might be best to put sentiment to one side and use this one for spares instead. 

We'll see what I get back from the other approved organisation. If they also think that restoration must precede registration I'll be casting my net far and wide for another one. I've spent over forty years dreaming about driving around in one of these and, whilst I'm not going to break the law, I'll not let bureaucracy stop me either!

[darrenh]

9 tonnes must be the MAM/GTW though, it could be downplated fairly easily, he says, ontop of all the other identity issues

[glenanderson]

Sept 29, 2014 16:28:10 GMT darrenh said:

9 tonnes must be the MAM/GTW though, it could be downplated fairly easily, he says, ontop of all the other identity issues

Hi Darren, nice to see a familiar name!

Yes, it could be downplated, but I've a class 1 HGV (showing my age there), and I'll not be happy to be giving up 30% of it's load carrying capacity!