Living with Retro Compromise

[slomoshun]

Following on from the excellent thread about swmbo etc i got to thinking how other retro owners who have modified retro cars with roll cage, bucket seats and full harness get on with the swmbo using said car on daily basis of being a passenger, driver or using it for those shopping trips etc. My wife don't mind the Powerflow exhaust, lowered stiff suspension, likes the Cobra bucket seats which she nicknamed < pudding seats > but is just getting used to full harness which i convinced her were only fitted to quality cars. The modifications we see as essential to the evolution of our retro and to which we live with are not always viewed the same by others which is the essence of this thread so would be interested to listen to any comments on this subject.
Must add the modifications were already fitted when i acquired this little runaround vehicle.

[stuartp]

My wife calls my Escort the death trap and expects it to break down every time we go out in it (not an unfair assumption tbh).

There's no way she'd ever drive it herself and if I were to put in a full roll cage, bucket seats and harnesses I suspect she would never get in it

[slomoshun]

havent got the roll cage yet but guaging opinions on this

[omega]

always thought a cage in a road car would do more harm than good

[slomoshun]

was considering cage to stiffen up as a whole but not written in stone thread is more about living with bucket seats / harnesses / loud ish exhaust / stiffened lowered suspension etc

[accord83]

My wife went ballistic when I fitted full harnesses, apparently ladies come fitted with air bags that they do not like having squashed under their armpits by full harnesses....
So the seat had to be changed as a conventional 3 point tried to strangle her, Mmmmm I slipped up there methinks.

[sharkattack]

I love the race car thing but harnesses on a road car are always a pain in the balls. I'd only fit them if I was doing track days at least once a month or something. The car would have to 'need' them. Any less than that and I'd rather do without. I mean, you're not driving flat out on the road anyway are you? Hmm?

[skoze]

My girlfriend's quite an advocate for me fitting a cage to one or both of mine - think the Capri might get a half cage when it's back on the road again.

Shouldn't really be an issue for the passenger as it's safer and they're generally just sitting there taking it easy - but i guess it's a given that caged cars are gonna be low, stiff and loud, so I could see the other side! Mr Accord makes a very good point too - comfortable for us may not always be mutual...

Could run both a standard belt and harnesses for track? I'm sure i've seen a few run like that.

[MiataMark]

Isn't the issue with roll cages that if you're not wearing a helmet you're likely to brain yourself hitting your (unprotected) head against a steel tube? Of course it depends on the location of the cage.

[spacekadett]

My road / track day car with cage and 4 point harnesses came off the road just as we got together, so not a lot of help I'm afraid. However my mk1 Mini was a proper race car in the past, so only had one seat. So I robbed the vinyl slide o matic passenger seat and static belt out of a spares Mk1. Ok for the missus on the road, interesting for passengers out on track

[scratcher]

My girlfriend thinks my Renault 5 is "cute" but she's terrified of being in it. She isn't keen on the pops, bangs, turbo spool, chatter, rattles here and there.
Then there's the seats, harnesses and roll cage.
I explained that I've seen what happens if you crash one... which hasn't filled her with confidence

As to having a roll cage on the road. I always thought it was considered dangerous to have buckets and harnesses with out a cage. If you roll a car in harness you can't tuck your head down so you'd get squished. The roll hoop should keep your head where it is and the harness keep you in the seat.

[slomoshun]

that is one sobering though scratcher

[reliantreviver]

The brace traversing the interior from hoop to NS footwell was never that well received by passengers.



The main complaint Mrs Reviver has about my daily SS1 (not the one above!) is the smell of oil / crankcase gasses / hot fibreglass. Other than that she is comendably tolerant, and does enjoy the occasional spat behind the wheel.

[Rob M]

IIRC there was an episode of one of those Traffic Cops programmes where they attended an accident where something like a 200sx had done a forward somersault and pirouette ending up on its roof.
Despite the cops turning their noses up at its heavy modifications they conceded that had the car not been sporting a full roll cage, the driver would have been killed.
I would suspect that a roll cage in a daily will make the car safer for occupants ONLY if its fitted correctly and not shoved in in some half a***d fashion.
Personally, the idea of using a retro that's modified to almost racing car spec as a daily turn me cold.
People who do that without complaint have balls of steel IMHO.

[reliantreviver]

Agreed Zeb. And proper cage padding is a must if it's in a road car / driven without 'elmuts. May be expensive for the proper stuff, but preferable to head trauma at any cost.

The one that I struggle with is taking carpets out. I mean, come on, how much does it weigh, what does it gain you, and how hideously boomy / clattery does it make the car in day to day usage?

I can't claim to have run anything rediculously low or stiff as a daily. But various things rattled loose on my SS1 which is about 50% stiffer and 1" lower than stock. Can't help but think soft and squishy is quite nice y'know.

[sharkattack]

Bear with me this might be a bit boring but it explains why the next time I have a fast car (especially is it's based on a retro shell) I'm putting a quality roll cage in first.

A couple of years ago I witnessed a crash right in front of me. It was an MPV, a typical angry dad car like a Ford C-max shape but I forget the model. Anyway it was driving towards us, way too fast, on a narrow B road when it hit some black ice, pirouetted and dropped off the road into a field at about 60. The car dug and got flipped end-over-end and finished with a couple of rolls. We stopped and were first on the scene. Apart from broken glass and a few missing panels the main shell of the car was in tact. The fat ignorant driver, his two daughters and his wife (with a bump on her head) all survived.

Modern cars aren't crying out for roll cages because of the way they're built. They are designed to be safe in the event of you getting a bit upside down.
Old cars weren't.

Think of a very popular, usually turbo powered, RWD, boxy old car that enjoys a reputation for safety and build quality. Yep, I know what you're thinking. Now what happens if you flip one?



You get your head squashed.

It's really, really easy to flip a car. And I wouldn't want to do it in any of the old junk I've had!

I think I could roll my van without messing my hair up though.

[reliantreviver]

Quite right on old VS new, I recall seeing something about Volvo or Saab having developed multi layer pillars that were so strong the fire brigade weren't able to chomp through them!

The deformation of the roof into a passenger compartment isn't an instant killer, indeed we're quite squidgy and moveable. Plenty of videos of un-caged cars landing upside down caving the roof in, yet still the occupants walk away.

Clattering into things inside the car is pretty damaging though, bare exposed lumps of cage hurt quite a bit I'd imagine! Hence, "show cages" and the like are really not so clever.

Ya noggin ways about 5kgs, and in the event of a crash you have absoluetly no say in where it's going un-restrained. Thankfully modern cars have curtain air bags etc.

This pic makes me feel a bit sore all over again (passenger at the time)

[Richard TR7]

My wife HATES driving my T4, it's slow, has a heavy clutch, a heavy throttle, hard to park etc. She doesnt like being a passenger in hot weather much either as it doesnt have air conditioning. On the other hand she loves the space and the fact that the kids love it (the TV's help with that).

Its a long time since she went in the triumph but we did drive it to yorkshire for a wedding, she complained it was cramped and hot but loved the fact that we were in something different.

Echoing a lot of what has been said up above, Roll cages and harnesses are fine provided they are fitted correctly and are well thought out. Standard car seats cant cope with the forces involved when someone has a harness on, and badly fitted harness can cause more harm than help depending on how they are fitted. It is also worth considering if you can still operate all the cars controls with the harnesses on. I regularly work on a Lotus elan which had no belts as standard and was then fitted with 4 point harnesses, with the belts on you cannot release the handbrake from under the dash!

[Fungus]

My girlfriend really likes being in my Polo, even thought its on stiff suspension, poly bushes and really low profile tyres.

The only time she really didnt enjoy it was when the lights and wipers stopped working... at 3am, doing 80mph in a rainstorm

[Killbill]

My Mrs Broadie really enjoyed getting in and out of my 924,if fact she loved it that much she only did it once!!!!
Could stand the exitment, the tiny struggle she had getting made her wee a little !!!!!