A dangerous early-style cycle car. 28/6

[Seth]

I've had this project in mind for ages and am finally getting around to doing something about it. The aim is to make something that is strongly remeniscent of the cycle cars made in the WW1 era. I'm not going to be able to make it perfectly period correct as that would probably involve spending actual money on 100 year old parts but that is to be the overall look and feel using bits and pieces made/altered to suit. I love the basic concepts used in period and intend to use some of the more hopeless mechanisms to provide minimal speed, wholely innapropriate driving dynamics and with any luck, dangerous spinny things to catch errant limbs.

To that end, yesterday I arrnged some bits on the floor. Initial layout featuring transverse engine and parallel frame rails. Drive would go via chain to a centrally mounted shaft and then from there by belt back to one wheel.



Decided tapering frame rails might be better as it would help with location of the back axle.



Also offerd up the engine in a longitudinal fashion, which I think looks better though it'll have to come back a bit from there as the front axle will be located through the front of the chassis. I'm going to have to sort out a gear set of some sort to turn the drive the right way for the final belt drive though. I have discovered that Yamaha have made quite a few bikes with shaft drive and that might be one suitable avenue. I think a modern (perhaps '70s or '80s) part could be made to look OK in that application. Will see what comes up as there might be something more industrial (but still small) available.



Anyway, that bit of playing around enabled me to prepare a detailed chassis drawing.



I referred to that today, and ignored at least one dimension since the long length of 4" x 2" wood I had, cut in half, made 60" long rails. I then also cut front and rear crossmembers out of a length of 3" x 4" and the ends of these are at an angle to suit the taper. This wood by the way is one part that is authentically period as it came from the pile of waste when the house opposite (built in around 1920) had its roof replaced.  The circular saw wouldn't go right through so I had to get the old wood saw out to finish the cuts.



This is where I'm at. I cut the crossmembers to full length as I think it might be nice to do some sort of 'proper' joint, so they will end up flush or nearly so with the side rails.



I shall be keeping an eye out at autojumbles and things for other parts now including a leaf spring off something small I can cut in half for the rear quarter eliptics, some sort of hubs for the back wheels - maybe front hubs off a small old car, belting, sprockets etc. In the mean time I think I'll get the chassis screwed together and start making the front axle and its steering pivot.

[oldskooldread]

Great stuff, Love the wooden frame rails reminiscent of the GN race cars and and the rear wheels are awesome. Like you I had trouble sourcing a small light leaf spring. IMHO front mounting the engine is a great idea to help with the weight distribution and I reckon I'll end up having to make some 1/4 ellipse leaf sets at some stage. Two questions what engine is that and do I recognise that Oxford in the pic above from the UKK Kustoms Klub?

[zipgun]

Brilliant ! You'll want a bowler hat to be more authentic.
Ihope the pic works

[Paul Y]

Seth,

I have the remains of the worn out rear leafs from my 3100 pick up that are yours if they are of any use?

Love the madness of the project. I am in.

P.

[generallee]

I think golf karts have leaf springs on the rear. Perhaps a bit too small though....

[Seth]

May 3, 2016 14:47:25 GMT oldskooldread said:

Great stuff, Love the wooden frame rails reminiscent of the GN race cars and and the rear wheels are awesome. Like you I had trouble sourcing a small light leaf spring. IMHO front mounting the engine is a great idea to help with the weight distribution and I reckon I'll end up having to make some 1/4 ellipse leaf sets at some stage. Two questions what engine is that and do I recognise that Oxford in the pic above from the UKK Kustoms Klub?

Thanks. GN used ash which would obviously be better than 100 year old pine (I assume) but there we go. I think just the main leaf from something like the back of an A35 or maybe something earlier which is small and light, cut in half might do the job. The engine is a typical '50s lawn mower type affair which is a sidevalve four stroke so could be dressed up a bit to oldify slightly. It's handly got a 'proper' cone clutch attached rather than the usual dog or centrifugal affair which I think I may be able to operate with a bell crank push rod from a pedal. Back wheels are from an unknown source but I most love the totaly bald tyre which must have been driven on until it got to that state before the MOT was introduced. Oh, and there is UKK membership in my past

May 3, 2016 15:59:34 GMT zipgun said:

Brilliant ! You'll want a bowler hat to be more authentic.

Thanks. I shall ensure appropriate headgear will be worn at all times. I know someone who bought a Velocar like the one pictured earlier this year...

May 4, 2016 6:22:04 GMT Paul Y said:

Seth,
I have the remains of the worn out rear leafs from my 3100 pick up that are yours if they are of any use?
Love the madness of the project. I am in.

Thanks for the offer. I have a pair of Hunter ones sat around but think they are too long and probably too strong so suspect pick-up ones would be even more over the top.

May 4, 2016 8:18:44 GMT generallee said:

I think golf karts have leaf springs on the rear. Perhaps a bit too small though....

Hmm, thanks. I'll look into that.

Have to say part of the impetus for finally getting on with this was discovering at the weekend that there was a cycle car factory at the end of my mum's road (where I was born) when the street was built up just before WW1. Sadly nothing remains of it. Archie Faser Nash has a lot to answer for....

[oldskooldread]

Great stuff, I've got one on cooker too, mind you its simmering very slowly due to old parents. Rather than use a mower engine I was given a water cooled Honda 125 motorbike that is watercooled so just to be awkward like you I'm using what I've got. There's a link to it mistakenly posted on the front page of this section of the forum.

I shall really look forward to following this build.

PS I think the last time I saw that Oxford was at UKK show @ Frankie and Bennys in Nottingham, this was way, way back when 2002/2003. I was casting ally as the man behind the Karma Klaw and the "Da bomb". Nice to see its still around and by the looks of it getting tubbed?

P.S. the Gittreville guys & gals have some good ideas worth looking at. Here's a link if your interested

gittrevillegp.com/www.gittrevillegp.com/Welcome.html

Cheers OSD aka 8BB

[georgeb]

Bookmarked!

[93fxdl]

Terribly sorry, but this sprung to mind.

Ttfn Glenn
In my defence it is a piece of cinematic history

[dubscum]

dangerous - tick
early style - tick
car - tick
cycle - tick.

i'm in!

[Seth]

May 4, 2016 12:37:12 GMT oldskooldread said:

Great stuff, I've got one on cooker too, mind you its simmering very slowly due to old parents. Rather than use a mower engine I was given a water cooled Honda 125 motorbike that is watercooled so just to be awkward like you I'm using what I've got. There's a link to it mistakenly posted on the front page of this section of the forum.

I shall really look forward to following this build.

PS I think the last time I saw that Oxford was at UKK show @ Frankie and Bennys in Nottingham, this was way, way back when 2002/2003. I was casting ally as the man behind the Karma Klaw and the "Da bomb". Nice to see its still around and by the looks of it getting tubbed?

P.S. the Gittreville guys & gals have some good ideas worth looking at. Here's a link if your interested

gittrevillegp.com/www.gittrevillegp.com/Welcome.html

Cheers OSD aka 8BB

Thanks. Nottingham UKK weekends were a long time ago! Oxford not getting tubbed (that's a skinny TR3 wheel on that corner at the moment) but retaining its kinda 60s style Brit custom credentials. There's a very long thread about it in the readers rides.

May 5, 2016 23:11:39 GMT georgeb said:

Bookmarked!

Hope I can keep the impetus up then!

May 6, 2016 18:00:57 GMT 93fxdl said:

Terribly sorry, but this sprung to mind.
Ttfn Glenn
In my defence it is a piece of cinematic history

Thanks Glenn, that's a great film which I'm not sure I've seen before.

May 8, 2016 9:13:31 GMT dubscum said:

dangerous - tick
early style - tick
car - tick
cycle - tick.

i'm in!

I've always found it best to do the watching when dangerous things are involved. Hang on.......

Grabbed some time yesterday to see if the engine would run. Too off the float chamber and filled it with a bit of petrol/methanol dragster starting mix which from a fairy liquid bottle. On the second pull of the starter it tried to fire and run! But obviously there was not enough fuel around to keep going.

So I rigged up a better fuel supply. DANGEROUS.



We have a runner!


(*uploaded because there aren't enough videos of Youtube of Suffolk engines putting away on garage floors...)

I then did the next most important thing and tried to take the silencer off which promptly broke a way due to rust. So I made a much better replacement with some scrap/offcuts.



I have bought via eBay what I hope will be the basis of my transmission to allow for the longitudinal engine placement so I look forward to that turning up. Also did some calculations which suggest I should be in with a shot of managing to gear this sufficiently to power along at a slow speed.  I've also been looking and can't find any photos of one of these engines with the same clutch arrangement. Odd.

[dude]

Inspiring stuff, i'll be following this closely...

May 9, 2016 9:14:13 GMT Seth said:

  I've also been looking and can't find any photos of one of these engines with the same clutch arrangement. Odd.

Could it be from a marine application? Old small inboard motors often used cone clutches.
Although it looks awfully small for even for a tiny boat..

[Deleted]

I'd love your imagination!
Bookmarked!

[mexicansteve]

I quite enjoyed the Dangerous Brothers link. Are you sure you're not related what with your build and all?

[93fxdl]

For a bit of period style tuning, how about a reverse cone megaphone or maybe a miniature brooklands silencer? Might not fit with your plans, but how about mounting above rear axle? Hopefully should add to the risk levels as you may be able to wheelstand. If you Google Briggs and Stratton tuning there's a huge amount of information on making more power from small sidevalve motors. There's even miniature drag racers

But that is just a touch off topic
Ttfn Glenn

[nomad]

^ I found a tiny moped petrol-tank balanced on top of the engine works fine instead of a funnel full of petrol, just saying like...

suggestions to think about
can you fit a larger engine or scale down the frame & wheels? (just for visual appeal)
some mopeds (mobylette?) had a centrifugal clutch with basic CVT gears (think of 2 back-to-back pan lids, with drive belt running between them) could be an option if you can find something similar?

Info / links :
these motors come in 75cc or 98cc flavours. set points gap 20 thou, fuel adjuster (side) screw 3/4 turn out, air (top) screw 1 turn out.
strip & setup Suffolk carb
there's also a forum for old lawnmowers www.oldlawnmowerclub.co.uk/forum/suffolk-colt-75g14-hunting

I hope the vital statistics will let it fit inside the boot of a Sceptre? (I'm thinking RRG16 and beyond )

[fogey]

Love the 'detailed chassis drawing' - Sir Alec with his 'Mini' sketch on the back of a napkin would be proud of you!

[ettorebugatti]

Like this build!

Have you seen this one?


Shaft drive from a lawn mower, I think

[Seth]

Thanks for comments/suggestions all.

Glenn, not really interested in ny performance out of this thing at all other than to make it go.

Pete, once this comes together using the bits I have and vitals I don't, and if it works, I will be tempted to look out for a pre-war motorbike engine, ideally 1910/s 20s for some proper authenticity but I've no idea what kind of budget that might need. The Suffolk is 75cc but if mopeds manage with 50cc I'm hoping this will manage to propel my frame along at 10mph or so. I have considered the possibility of it fitting in the back of an estate car, yes

E-bugg, I'm trying to look at as few places as possible for inspiration as I've kinda got this figured out in my head and am interested to a certain degree in developing it like they must have been doing in the 1910's, working things out ut things as they went along.

Drive shaft turned up! I mocked it all up again using the random wood in the dungeon rather than my proper rails which are at home.



I think it looks pretty good in scale with the engine and in terms of lengh is ideal as it means the countershaft that will come off it (to belt drive to the back wheel) is pretty much under where my knees will be. Engine will sit lower and there'll be less angle on the shaft in practice.



It is from a Velocette LE, an early one I beleive and so probably late '40s. Certainly looks much more in keeping than an 80's Japanese one would. It incorporates brake shoes which expand at the pull of the lever to contact the inside of the wheel hub (which I don't have). Could make a brake drum as part of the countershaft or look out for a bike wheel hub of the right diameter to modify to suit. In some ways it'll be dissapointing to have an actual brake as I was planning on a lever pressing a wood block on to a rear tyre. But it will look a bit better 'engineered'.



The ball end of the driveshaft contains a U/J with a splined input. I haven't measured but it looks like if I machine some splines (there's only 6) into the end of the clutch output shaft I could make this slot straight in.



I think before getting much more in the way of parts I have to get the chassis rails together and some of these bits mounted.

[vanpeebles]

Love it! The first test drive (and all drives after) have to be done wearing a trilby hat