DET gen-me-up.

[tigran]

Think i've found the engine i wanna use in october in one of the cars, after a long chat and hoon round at a track day with a friend in his s14 200sx. I've decided that a 2.0 DOHC Nissan turbo from the DET family is the way forward.

But there are so damn many of them. The CA18 DET, the SR20DET, the s14 version of the DET apparently with variable timing and a nicer T28 tubby. Then there is the s14a engine, which was apparently updated with different turbo ball bearings.

This is all without even mentioning the S12 engines. So can someone who knows gimme a quick run down of which engines are good or if there is any avantage/disadvantage to any particular version.

Or is it just a case of 'find the newest, most powerful one you can'?

Thanks for any gen peeps.

Thanks for any help peeps.

[HoTWire]

You've got your engine code all mixed up

DET means DOHC, Fuel Injected and Turbo charged

The engine series are CA, SR, FJ and maybe KA. Although the last 2 are unlikely in the UK.

SR 20 DET means: SR series, 2 litres, DOHC, Fuel Injected and Turbo charged

CA 16 DE (like mine) means: CA Series, 1.6 litres, DOHC, Fuel Injected

Loads of info here :
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_engines

and I'm sure RatDat or someone will be along with some advice on which is better and where to get it from

[tigran]

Ah ok, so any engine with the right specs can be a DET. This is the one thing I don't like about going to a different marque for engines or cars - learning all the new codes, masonic handshakes and general bits n bobs.

Ta for the pointer.

p.s. it is only the DOHC turbo stuff that i'm interested in. Well possibly the 8v turbo stuff if there was one.

[charlie]

You want the 200sx S14 engine. The S14 SR20DET. You need the engine, turbo, loom, gearbox. The CA isn't as strong and the S14a and S15 are more difficult to find.

There you go.

Of course, you also need pretty pictures of the SR20DET installed in Datsuns for inspirations. Don't mind if I do:











Charlie

[tigran]

Third from top is ultimate oof and the look i'll be going for.

"this year oi will mostly be having ratty turbo power"

p.s. ta dude.

[charlie]

I now have Cosworth 2 litre power and having owned the two I am 100% sure that Nissan used the Cosworth as the starting point for their engine. Apart from the 2 litre turbo twin cam spec they share a very similar ignition, injection, timing and self test. The Nissan is aluminum and uses a timing chain.

I love the idea of the Nissan engineers reverse engineering a Sierra Cosworth in 1989ish to discover what makes it tick. And taking all the elements that make it what it is, but cramming it into a much smaller space so that people like me can't their big English hands in.



Charlie

[Ratdat]

Nissans DOHC attempts have nothing whatsoever to do with the Cosworth motor. End of. Nissan dabbled with DOHC designs as early as 1936 and such engines were already in production in the 60's. Other that it having two cams and four pistons there's nothing to connect them. Nissan engines used Bosch management manufactured by JECS in Japan to their electronics are similar to lots of other makes using Bosch stuff.

Also bear in mind that the FJ20 engine was in production before the Cosworth YB and put out a comparable level of power. I doubt Nissan engineers had much reason to reverse engineer one for the SR!

As for the subject of what's best... without a doubt the SR20DET is the pick of the bunch. It's not only stronger than the CA18DET but is far more torquey low down. Having run both engines in the same car with the same mods on each engine I can confidently say the SR rules!

The downside of the SR ic initial cost. It'll cost you nigh on double to buy an SR than it'll cost to get a CA. However, in my opinion it's money well spent as you would no doubt discover when the big ends let go on your first CA ;D

[RoadRacer>>>>>>>>>>]

My ten pence worth is that to say that the SR20DET in the pulsar/sunny GTIR has a slightly different block than in the 200sx as it is used with the 4WD box and not the RWD 200sx one,

I found this when researching possibly replacing my SR20DE engine in my primera GT, I would have needed the pulsar engine type for the FWD box.

[Ratdat]

Yes, the FWD SR uses a different bolt pattern on the bellhousing to the RWD. Unfortunate as it means there's no cheap source for SR20DE's. This doesn't apply to either single or twin cams CA's though. FWD and RWD blocks on those are the same.

[tigran]

Thanks for that RD, just the sort of advice i was looking for.

[Ratdat]

One other thing...if you're a bit handy with fettling engines you can turbo a n/a SR with good results. Although not common, you can occasionally pick up SR20DE's from imported S14 Silvias cheap because nobody wants them as they're not turbo. I got a complete setup for just over £80 and it's only done 45,000 Km's. Might be worth keeping a look out for one of those. Even in n/a form they go well. An S14 one is 165hp in n/a form.

[sammm]

Whats it going into tigran?

Seems like it happens all the time down here, with the SR being the most popular.


autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2349/article.html



autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2338/article.html

www.cortina-mk1.com/sr20.php

[tigran]

sammm it'll be going into my viva.

p.s. is that kandy on that escort?! If so - kool!

[HoTWire]

ratdat said:

The downside of the SR ic initial cost.

And on going costs for breakages if Reece's recent experiences are anything to go by

[Robinxr4i]

Sorry to go off topic, but these two don't seem to be running an intercooler (or am I missing something) surley removing an intercooler from an engine with one originally fitted aint a great idea. I know that an intercooler is not a necessity (metro turbo for instance), but are these guys running less boost to reduce pre ignition? or is there a chargecooler fitted and I am just being blind?





Anyway good thread

[Ratdat]

admin said:

ratdat said:

The downside of the SR ic initial cost.

And on going costs for breakages if Reece's recent experiences are anything to go by

Reece has a CA not an SR. My SR survived a year of competitive drifting and practice which worked out to be roughly 7k miles... that's 7k being bounced off the rev limiter in 2nd gear! It got detted hard twice, eating two sets if irridium plugs in the process and got overheated more times than I care to remember. Yet it's still going strong.
The CA I had before it lasted two practice events before chucking it's bottom end and at that stage it hadn't even been worked hard or even got hot.

Freshly built, a turbo CA will hold together just fine and put down reliable power like an SR (though it'll never have the bottom end grunt) The problem comes with buying a used engine. Your chances of buying a s/h CA turbo that will last are slim compared to those of getting an SR that will. Sure, you could buy a CA and rebuild it to get reliability like an SR but that'll cost more than SR money so there's no point unless you specifically want a CA.

There are situations where a CA would be preferable. I don't think I'd put an SR into anything really small like a Datsun 1200. That's CA territory as the CA fits far better and is lighter too. A small light car can function great with the lower bottom end power of the CA so that's not an issue. Also the difference between CA and SR in terms of reliability matters far less when you are talking n/a engines. The CA is a great engine n/a and doesn't seem to suffer bottom end problems as readily, most probably because the oil isn't subjected to as much as it is in a turbo, plus there's less blow-by to dilute it. The big shame is the lack of CA tuning parts as this somewhat limits CA potential without things getting expensive or the need for some clever fabrication.

Bottom line is, I can think of several cases of CA18DET's packing in, in cars I have known personallyyet, I can't think of a single case of an SR20DET doing so. Worst i've seen happen on an SR is a leaking headgasket (a metal one at that). That kind of colours my judgement somewhat!

As regards those pics above of cars running without IC's. All I can say is they must be mad! Talk about limit your potential! Sure, you can run without an IC but for the sake of some very minor fabrication and simple plumbing why would you?

Tigran, one other consideration you might need to consider, is both CA and SR are front sumped engines. The CA could be altered if you really had to but the SR can't really. The SR sump is two piece ...the main part being aluminium with just a small steel cover on the bottom of the bit that holds the oil. The aluminium part is structural to the block so you can really mess with it much and being aluminium, it's be tricky to alter. Hopefully the Viva is front sump. It's many years since I owned an HC so I really can't remember!