Reworking two garage doors into one

[moglite]

I'm lucky enough to have this garage at home.



Yep - I live at No 57 

Alas my Daimler doesn't fit it - the car is too long.
The garage has a max internal length of 4880mm - but the car is 4990mm 

Taking off the bumpers isn't practical - neither is ramming speed !!

But the doors are recessed into the opening, this is loosing me vital millimeters 

So if I change the doors so they fit on the outside wall of the garage I can gain some internal space.
Something like this



If I turned the "storage box" around, the main door would be about 100mm away from the front wall of the garage - giving me the extra space
It would be a simple matter to add an upright to each side to fill in the gap and make everything watertight IYSWIM.

But if was going to all this trouble - I'd want to remove the central pillar, so I can just have one large opening.

Alas the garage has two steel beams supporting the doors



Is there an alternative to stripping out both of those beams, and fitting in one full width one, as that sounds difficult and expensive.

Any thoughts ?

[deano123]

Due to the little support you have at each outer end and the length and weight of the RSJ I don't think you could get away with having no central support without spending serious money

[astranaut]

Thinking aloud here and I have no building expertise whatsoever, but can you not do away with the doors, but leave the twin opening if the new full size door will sit outside of the opening?

[ChrisT]

Don't know whether the lintels could be joined internally, bolting plates between them, they look like the hollow section type, probably not safe as they'd be taking a lot more weight without the central pillar.....

The roller shutter doors, that 'storage box' is usually a minimum of 250mm square on a garage door, so turning it round would mean making up quite a gap, plus you'd have to find a way of supporting it as they are usually fixed to the wall through the back of it, might be easier just to fix some timber to the wall to step it off to get enough clearance.

[steveg]

Our garage is double width with a large single door and I really want two singles. Thing I find is that by opening the door up everything gets damp and wet if the rain is blowing that way. I don't know how the car fits regarding the door width though as it's probably a bit tight as well.

Could you build an extension on the front and incorporate a new single door so you get an extra foot or two outwards ? You could retain the pillar but loose the width of the frames then and have a comfortable length to park in.

[Deleted]

Leave jointing the lintels to the Frank Spencer types - has it can only end one way and that is with 'Disaster' you only have to look at the weight of the brickwork in the gable above the lintels which in turn supports the weight of the roof - however there is no reason why the gable cannot be temporally supported whilst the lintels and central pillar are removed - a full width lintel installed to replace the existing and whilst you wont get it done for £10.50 I don't think you would be into silly costs either - your outer pillars are a little slim but these can structurally strengthened by bolting a steel box section / Universal Column to the inner side wall rebate - a good builder would have that sorted in a little over 1 / 1.5 days - just a matter of then fitting your door of choice

[moglite]

Hmmm some interesting points - thank-you.

I hadn't considered the wind/rain aspect. That would be a pain for how I use the garage.

Reworking the lintel without calling on Frank Spencer sounds like it could be more hassle than it is worth.
There is also the security aspect - I've got nowhere else to store my tools whilst the front of the garage gets a major makeover.

So maybe I've overcomplicated it.

One of my earlier musings was these doors




I could get a couple of those, but slightly bigger than the brick aperture.
Then fit them to the front wall of the garage. 

If I made a U-shaped frame around the existing opening with some of this maybe

120mm deep timber framing

I should be able to gain about 180mm of usable length, which will mean I don't have to park by touch, and the garage would look largely similar to now, which is important to SWMBO

That approach also has the advantage that the original doors can stay in place until the construction is done, so the garage will stay dry and secure.

Would that work ?

[guz]

I guess you could pre-fabricate the whole lot then just bolt it to the outside
and add a flashing along the top?

[moglite]

Apr 4, 2018 19:11:47 GMT guz said:

I guess you could pre-fabricate the whole lot then just bolt it to the outside
and add a flashing along the top?

Yeah that is what I was thinking, Flashing on the top sounds like a good idea 

[joem83]

Nice garage!

I'm no builder, but the gable end looks to be single skin & at a guess it doesn't take the weight of the roof as I'm assuming it's built using roof trusses. There does look like the column goes up to the apex though. As I said, I'm not a builder lol

I had a 3.8m (roughly) RSJ put in place of my kitchen wall & the wall taken down for £580 (just double checked invoice) if that's of any help. It has a lot more weight than that on it

[colnerov]

Hi, Funnily enough I keep looking at that gable end and looks like it could be infill because the bond doesn't line up or integrate with the side piers. Is it brick at all or a lookalike façade?

Colin

[Deleted]

The gable will not be a single skin wall - it will be a brick skin with a cavity then a block wall to which the brick courses will be tied to via stainless steel brick ties - the wall will also be tied back to the roof trusses and whilst not taking the all the weight of the roof the gable acts has part of the integral construction of the garage and takes some of the weight of the roof. I have a full width door across my 2 and half bay workshop and don't get any problems with the weather when the door is up - I doubt has to if you would - due to the shelter that the houses form / offer from either side of your garage - personally to leave the pillar in the way is a real comprise it's not something that I would entertain but it's your garage to do what you want you with.

[jonsey]

To me, from your 3rd photo it looks like there is no internal wall above the inner lintels. The brick gable will not be supporting the man part of the roof as the trusses are doing that. The roof will be tied into the wall using ladders to help stop the roof blowing off and will only be taking the weight of the tiles above the ladders.

That pillar looks like it wouldn't take more than a bad bit of reversing to bring the whole brick gable and lintels down. If it were mine I'd pull the brick gable down and timber frame the top and clad in the covering of your choice. One long lintel across the top and one big garage door.

Before you do anything I would speak to a structural engineer and for £600 or so you will have a plan for you to work to that you know is right.

Sadly I speak from experience and it's cheaper to get the SE involved from he start rather than later on.

[moglite]

Structural engineers and new full lengths steels are the right way to go.

But I'm thinking the cost VS benefit isn't worth it alas.

But I do still want to get some extra length so I can garage my Daimler.

I've dusted off my o-level technical drawing and come up with this



Simple and cheap.
I can do it all with the current doors in place, so there are no weather/security worries, just strip the old doors out when I'm done.

Some kind of steel/GRP side hinged doors, and if I pay the extra coin I can have insulated ones too 

[joem83]

Good plan.

I think it was about £2-300 for the structural engineer for mine, cant remember exact figure as they came twice (found a dodgy internal wall!)

Apr 5, 2018 16:43:25 GMT jonsey said:

If it were mine I'd pull the brick gable down and timber frame the top and clad in the covering of your choice. One long lintel across the top and one big garage door.

I was thinking that also.

[dadstaxi]

Why not leave the garage alone and build a carport over the drive?

[strikey]

another spin of the coin...and save a few in the process. depending if you want this to be a "forever" job or not , why not just knock up a timber frame along the lines of your drawing but make it the same width as the existing frame but come out a tad longer than you need and simply move the existing door out wards? trim the external faces in upvc board , a fleeted top board sealed to the brickwork. might look a bit like a boil on kylies bum but hey...I'd still kiss it! I reckon you could be done and finished for less than a ton all in , more money to throw at the big cat!

[joem83]

Before I start, this even sounds daft iny head.

What about getting an old oil drum, slicing it in half and attach it to the garage door, cutting out the bit that hits the car. Paint it all white. Job done.

It reads even worse lol

[moglite]

My first thoughts were "oil drum on the door".
Well maybe not an oil drum, but adding a "box" to the bottom of the door.
But with an up and over door, messing up the balance is bad - but then it wouldn't open up properly ;-)

Pulling down the gable end - wowzer. That is way too much for this little project. If I could then extend the roof and get an extra couple of feet on the garage - it would be worth it, but that isn't going to work for the neighbours, SWMBO or my wallet.

Carport....I looked at that, following your suggestion, but the left side of the driveway is the neighbours house, with no wiggle room. Width is already tight on the drive without adding in uprights.

Just moving the current doors forward in an extended frame is a great idea :-) I may do this, depending on the cost of new doors.
But a little extra width to the openings would be useful.
Also I can't open the right side door, because there are tall shelving units behind the door. Up'n'over doors need a lot of space to move inside the garage, especially when you are trying to cram every last corner full !!

[strikey]

Apr 6, 2018 7:05:23 GMT moglite said:

Also I can't open the right side door, because there are tall shelving units behind the door. Up'n'over doors need a lot of space to move inside the garage, especially when you are trying to cram every last corner full !!

split the r/h door down the centre , bond on angle section to cut edges to reinforce and create a weatherproof rebate , then side hang the doors. another cheap..ish option?