1970 Ginetta G15

[Darkspeed]

Finished these things but forgot to take photo's as Captain Itchy was on his way round to pick up some timber.



As he was likely to see molebert before I was I wanted to get them finished - One of them fought me and had to be completely remade when a thread galled on me.

Hopefully get a couple snaps from Molebert.

[Darkspeed]

Stripped the second engine down and found out why I could not get the seized piston to move - they are all stuck solid! - As it's a lost cause, especially with those cracks, I hammered on the pistons, block of wood and club hammer, and not one budged a mm. Crank is not bad, would need a grind to be perfect, but we have enough not to bother keeping it so it's going to scrap.

Not much more to add -

bizzo is testing Imp water pumps - more on that one another time
Captain Itchy is building hibernation shelters and working on a permanent fix for a leaking G32 Sunroof
molebert appears to be AWOL whilst threatening to paint KBW

Next couple of days will see the ordering up stainless for hinge production to resume, amongst other works.

Too make room in the garage my 150L compressor went to Itchy's place - better use of it was made there working on the 15's - On Thursday - this happened.





Okay so a nice problem to have, a free 150L compressor, but the timing is poor as I also need to find space for an old Boxford lathe (needs work) that someone has given me.

Better pull my finger out.

[Darkspeed]

Pictures of the completed pedals turned up.








And here are the Toyota wheels mentioned previously - drop me a PM if interested.








Body on chassis lifting duties tonight up at Itchy's place.

[Darkspeed]

Needed some storage space so hid from the mid day sun by cleaning out the inside of the Racer.


Just a scraper, Dust pan and brush and a bucket required.

Started








Finished











Then dropped the cage in to provide that "racer" style.





Now starting to get filled with parts so that I can get my garage back straight enough to move on with the other projects.


This weekend - Bauhaus

[75swb]

I find a good tidy up and a bit of working space can really fire projects forward!

Those Toyota wheels are ace too, centre caps and all!

[varelse]

I still wonder what Celica wheels would look like on the Cressida.
Probably not very good.

[Darkspeed]

Spent the evening with Itchy and bizzo yesterday testing Hillman Imp water pumps. Looking at the sheet of paper I have in front of me I am surprised to find that we managed to test 8 pumps.

Out of the 8 it looks like only two were original Chrysler casings the rest being Quinton Hazel item or unbranded without markings.

Sorry for the lack of photo's on this - a description will have to do unless we do some further tests.

Basically we had a header tank reservoir to provide a full flooded suction to the pump. The pump outlet was connected to a pipe that had a section of clear PVC tubing that was run vertically so we could measure the head generated by the pump. The pumps were powered by an electric drill onto the pulley nut. Drill was run at the maximum RPM - approx. 3000. The pulley sizes on a stock Imp motor run the water pump at about a 10% underdrive compared to the crank so the 3000 was about 3500 RPM or in a G15 56 MPH in top.

We had a bit of a false start with the comparisons when I found the drill was not set to maximum so we had an initial low readings.

Pump 1 - Bizzo (QH)- Reconditioned pump - Measured head Low RPM - 780mm
Pump 2 - Bizzo - Original pump on PHX - Measured head Low RPM - 860mm - High RPM - 2100mm
Pump 3 - DS-1 (QH) - Measured head high RPM - 2190mm
Pump 4 - Itchy 1 - Measured head high RPM - 2000mm
Pump 5 - DS-Chrysler Original - Measured head high RPM - 3400mm ++
Pump 6 - Molebert - Chrysler rebuilt - Measured Head high RPM - 2400mm
Pump 7 - DS-2 - Measured head high RPM - 2310mm
Pump 8 - DS-Crusty (QH)- Measured head high RPM - 2100mm

The output from the original Chrysler pump took us all by surprise - over a Metre head better output than the best of the rest. I expect it was around 3600mm WC

Most pumps tested at 3 - 3.5 PSI The Chrysler pump measured 5PSI nearly 50% more pressure.

We also found that the higher performing pump also had a smaller diameter pulley fitted ! Not that it made any difference in the test as we were spinning a nut not a pulley. However, now need to find out out what engines had a small water pump pulley.

The Imp cooling system does not have a great deal of pressure drop through it, as like a "normal" system the rad is right next to the engine - The G15 however has a lot of coolant pipes connecting the front to the back. With that layout there is a far great requirement for pump pressure in order to overcome the flow restrictions, especially when you have more than doubled the heat output from the engine by tuning.

I had always understood that the QH pumps were not quite as good as the factory pumps and a lot of what we have found here bears that out. Just need to figure out why.

Also worth noting that a smaller pulley diameter on the pump not only increases the pump speed and output but also the fan speed. Wondering if the smaller pulley is off a van.

[teaboy]

Sept 9, 2021 11:10:21 GMT Darkspeed said:

I had always understood that the QH pumps were not quite as good as the factory pumps and a lot of what we have found here bears that out. Just need to figure out why.

That's interesting, DS.

Are there any visual differences, like cast or pressed impellers for instance?

[Darkspeed]

Sept 9, 2021 19:31:44 GMT teaboy said:

That's interesting, DS.

Are there any visual differences, like cast or pressed impellers for instance?

Most of the impellers are cast but I have come across plastic as well

At least one of the impellers in the test above were plastic - DS-2 I think which I was expecting to perform far worse than it did. Unfortunately being a separate cased pump it is not easy to check dimensions like you can with an in-block type.





You can see into the pump through the outlet and view a 40mm x 20mm section of the impeller - and that's it - you can see some clearances but just when you think you have understood the critical clearances looking into this little window as to what makes a good pump, put your reputation and your Strato's project on the line, and stated it to be the worst of the bunch due to its plastic impeller and canyon wide clearances, it performs third best ! You just cannot see enough to make any sort of judgement. Although the best pump had the very smallest visual tolerance between case and impeller - you cannot measure diameters or view any differences in vanes etc.

The good pump needs to come apart to have new seals fitted so we will be able to take all the critical measurements to find out why it performs the way it does.

[teaboy]

I have an intense dislike of plastic impellers in water pumps, they have left me stranded twice.
First one destroyed the engine (no temperature gauge), second one was a four hour wait for recovery.

[biturbo228]

Interesting. I've had problems with idle-speed coolant flow in my X1/9 for quite some time. I've chased down loads of issues with various bits of the cooling, but I seem to remember it worked fine before swapping the original pump as it had dead bearings.

I wonder if the replacement pumps I've got just aren't as good as the original ones. Might try and find a NoS one...

[Darkspeed]

All this testing is due to PHX running hotter than it should be and I have come to the conclusion that we have an air locking problem - a big bubble is stuck in the system and the water flow is getting severely restricted as it tries to squeeze past it. The higher performance pump has dropped the running temp by quite a margin as its higher pressure is squeezing more flow past but it is not the solution to the problem - Getting the air to bleed out is the way forward.

[Darkspeed]

So,

bizzo sent me a few pictures and I think the problem is this bit here.





I was not expecting it to look like that as I thought that at some time in the past 'x' years the T-Stat housing was turned 180 degrees so that it pointed down and in the opposite direction. Well it's now in the standard Imp orientation and is staying there so we need to install a bleed line back to the header tank.

A bit of fabrication - Lathe, bead roller, Drill, TIG and we have








It will be fitted and tested on Wednesday.

[norfolkginetta]

Hi Darkspeed,

Going back to you studies on water-pumps, this is the pump I’ve just removed from my G15, as part of the re-commissioning process. It’s not an original pump, but we think it’s a Ford Kent pump with a rear section fabricated to suit. No idea how good it would be, but a lot cheaper and easier to get hold than an original pump

Regards

Andy

[Darkspeed]

Now that is an interesting item. I had been looking at Ford V6 pumps, they are for the most part a separate pump, pretty cheap and look to need simple fabricated connection. Also for any other complete separate pump, I had not given thought to a standard pump and a fabricated housing so that is a very interesting item. I will have to inspect the X-Flow block that is on a stand at bizzo 's place tomorrow evening to see how it form any volute.

More than enough flow to keep 100BHP+ cool

Thanks norfolkginetta that is another direction to explore.

[norfolkginetta]

No problems, when I get a bit more time, I'll strip it down and post some more pictures, to give you a better idea of whats's been done
Rgds,
Andy

[Darkspeed]

norfolkginetta

Sent you an email and a PM

[jonsey]

Normally on a crossflow that revs higher than standard you have to slow the pump down with a smaller crank pulley to prevent cavitation. I’m sure where the pump sits in the block is just a big hole.

[Darkspeed]

Sept 14, 2021 17:36:47 GMT jonsey said:

Normally on a crossflow that revs higher than standard you have to slow the pump down with a smaller crank pulley to prevent cavitation. I’m sure where the pump sits in the block is just a big hole.

I would need to measure the X-Flow standard pulley and compare to the Imp Standard pulley - the race engine will rev to 9K + typically the deep groove alloy race crank pulley is enough - However, I also have a super high RPM crank pulley !! I think the alternator would only charge at 3000 RPM with that one.

[Implandy]

It would be interesting to compare a 930cc Talbot Sunbeam pump , which is really an Avenger pump with a cast rear cover .