One for the Aircooled VW gurus "full flow oil system"

[discostew38]

Right I'm building a new engine for my bay window and I'm starting off with a new crank case 
I want to improve the oil system by fitting a remote oil filter and replaced the stock oil cooler on top of the engine with a remote cooler elsewhere 

the new crank case is pre drilled for full flow
and it's a double relief valve


The way I understand the double relief valve is the front valve is an oil cooler bypass valve that works on oil viscosity (hot thin/cold thick)
so it diverts the thin (hot) oil through the cooler and engine and the thick (cold) oil goes through the engine and some gets diverted back to the sump
and the rear valve is the pressure relief valve 
ive also seen a machined oil cooler blanking plate for the top of the engine so you can do away with the stock cooler but not affect it original Chanel of flow



so the two questions are 
1) whats the best way to plumb in an inline filter and cooler 
2) and once I've done that would it be best to install a fixed front oil relief valve so the flow isn't interrupted 

on a normal engine this would just be a matter of fitting a sandwich plate Inbetween the oil filter and block 

this is my first type 1 build so probably not my last question 

[ChasR]

I’ll ask my VW friends. From memory it’s been done before and there are solwmgood kits out there.

[ChasR]

Right, I've asked the guys and this is their answer:

"He needs a full flow oil cover, a pump with the outlet blocked off, remote filter housing and I’d recommend a thermostat as well.

Then it just needs plumbing from the pump cover, to the filter, then from the filter to the thermostat, then off the thermostat to the cooler, back to the thermostat and to the case. He can leave both oil relief valves in."

Some of this depends on how the block has been drilled. Regarding the oil cover:

"Depends how it’s been done, but if only the top oil gallery has been tapped, you need a full flow cover and a blocked pump outlet. If the lower gallery has been tapped as well then just a stock pump can be used."

Using an oil filter with a bypass valve built in is recommended too. Mann filters tend to have them as do Purflux, Mahle and Coopers IME. Mann tell you on their website which filters have them and which don't. From a decent specialist I'd imagine they'd tell you if they did have them. Failure to get a filter without a bypass valve will result in the oil seal rupturing on the filter due to excess pressure.

[discostew38]

Jun 28, 2018 8:38:46 GMT ChasR said:

Right, I've asked the guys and this is their answer:

"He needs a full flow oil cover, a pump with the outlet blocked off, remote filter housing and I’d recommend a thermostat as well.

Then it just needs plumbing from the pump cover, to the filter, then from the filter to the thermostat, then off the thermostat to the cooler, back to the thermostat and to the case. He can leave both oil relief valves in."

Some of this depends on how the block has been drilled. Regarding the oil cover:

"Depends how it’s been done, but if only the top oil gallery has been tapped, you need a full flow cover and a blocked pump outlet. If the lower gallery has been tapped as well then just a stock pump can be used."

Using an oil filter with a bypass valve built in is recommended too. Mann filters tend to have them as do Purflux, Mahle and Coopers IME. Mann tell you on their website which filters have them and which don't. From a decent specialist I'd imagine they'd tell you if they did have them. Failure to get a filter without a bypass valve will result in the oil seal rupturing on the filter due to excess pressure.

Thanks for getting back to me
il look into the oil filters and go with what you've said 

[ChasR]

I've already looked into it. The choices available are all from Machine 7 bar the Fram equivalent.

Fram HP1 Performance - Bypass Pressure 1.5Bar
Mann W940/1 - HP1 Equivalent 1.2 Bar
Mann W719/5 - Alternative. 2.5 Bar

The HP1 types have a larger oil capacity.

[neilsdavies]

Basically what ChasR said, but reading through your first post I see that you want to do away with the stock oil cooler? I like the idea of the external cooler but I'd have that as an additional one.
A better modification would be to use the Type 4 cooler, as found on late bays and aircooled Type 25s. These look very similar to the stock doghouse cooler but are a row wider. This obviously means that the tins that fix to the back of the fanshroud need a strip letting in. This will give you the same cooling as a later, heavier bus.

What is the overall spec of the motor, and what do you want it to do? Cross Africa or just weekend cruising to the shows?

[discostew38]

Jul 2, 2018 5:53:24 GMT neilsdavies said:

Basically what ChasR said, but reading through your first post I see that you want to do away with the stock oil cooler? I like the idea of the external cooler but I'd have that as an additional one.
A better modification would be to use the Type 4 cooler, as found on late bays and aircooled Type 25s. These look very similar to the stock doghouse cooler but are a row wider. This obviously means that the tins that fix to the back of the fanshroud need a strip letting in. This will give you the same cooling as a later, heavier bus.

What is the overall spec of the motor, and what do you want it to do? Cross Africa or just weekend cruising to the shows?

Hi
the whole build is based on reliability durability and drive ability 

I have two reasons for moving the dog house oil cooler 
1) better cooling : if I go for a remote cooler I can go bigger and either duct it or run a fan So more efficient under any condition
2) space : it messes up the flow line of the engine I'm trying to do away with stock tin work and go for a lower down draft fan set up so I can make it more compact 
i want to use a conventional alternator so that means I can't run the stock fan 

I know what your thinking 
why am I making unnecessary work for myself when I can just replace the dynamo with a alternator and still run stock fan and tin

well I still need to get an A/C pump on there and a superchager

that also means I need to find a home for an intercooler/charge cooler and condensor so space is of the essence
build spec is 2110 force induction on stand alone ecu
I'm aiming for a low rpm high torque reliable engine 
something me and the wife can just jump in turn the key and drive to Cornwall at motorway speeds for 6 hours without worrying it's not going to make it 
as if we was in a VW T5





if you have any ideas that may help me on my impossible guest feel free to throw them my way
as I mentioned at the start this will be my first air cooled VW so any help would be appreciated 

[neilsdavies]

Now it makes sense! 82 x 90.5 should be a good solid base, and supercharger or turbo/efi should help it along quite nicely. Re-designing the tin will be quite a task - there's a chap in the States called Jake Raby who's done loads of testing on fan shroud designs - he used to have lots of info about comparison testing on his website.

[discostew38]

Bang on with bore and stroke
From what I've read 90.5 is the biggest bore you can go before you loose cooling surface area so that sounded safe to me

Plan A was to go twin Superchager's I have two from a VW polo but that was shelved due to lack of space
I still may go turbo as that's an area I'm more familiar with but Superchaged will fit the build requirements better
Each has its own headaches to work around


My parts stock pile is nearly ready

[discostew38]

Back to the oil system
I'm waiting for my oil pump to arrive at the moment and the front plate I've ordered has the one outlet
I'm trying to use the least amount of oil lines to keep the oil travel down

So this is my plan let me know if you think this will work

Out the front of the pump into the oil filter just under the N/S of the engine bay
Then out the filter and back into the front of the crank case
Then out the top of the crank case (oil cooler port) to oil cooler behind the engine around the gearbox area
Then back into the other oil cooler port on top of the engine

Under the bus round the gearbox is the only real free space and it will have some kind of air flow
This is probably where il have to fit the rad for the charge cooler

[neilsdavies]

It should work! The oil system on my 2007 (78 x 90.5) motor does much the same - out of the pump cover, through the filter and back into the case. You do have to modify the lower pulley tin a little bit. I'm on a stock doghouse cooler, but it's a higher compression carb'd motor.

Have you considered a Porsche fan conversion? The good ones have all the vanes in there, the alternator is better and there would be room for the a/c compressor too. Forced induction generates heat, so the nice thing about turbos is that you can move them out of the engine bay and into the airflow, maye one under each corner?

On a slightly less related note, one of the people I've known online for many years is Jim Ratto. He's active over on the Cal Look Lounge, but he's got a lot of really good info on facebook. It even tempts me to join up...

m.facebook.com/goodbetterbestautoparts/photos_stream?tab=photos_albums

[discostew38]

Jul 3, 2018 9:20:41 GMT neilsdavies said:

Have you considered a Porsche fan conversion? The good ones have all the vanes in there, the alternator is better and there would be room for the a/c compressor too. Forced induction generates heat, so the nice thing about turbos is that you can move them out of the engine bay and into the airflow, maye one under each corner?

On a slightly less related note, one of the people I've known online for many years is Jim Ratto. He's active over on the Cal Look Lounge, but he's got a lot of really good info on facebook. It even tempts me to join up...

m.facebook.com/goodbetterbestautoparts/photos_stream?tab=photos_albums

I did consider the Porsche fan
but it's a big expense to buy first time round and the replacement alternator is just as expensive 
I'm aiming to have a common off the shelf alternator like a BMW or ford 

il check out that Facebook page 

[neilsdavies]

Been giving this a lot of thought!
Use stock tinwear (plus the type 4 cooler mod I mentioned earlier) and fan, BUT swap the alternator/generator for a solid shaft driven by the standard fanbelt - obviously this will need you to make a new alternator tower - which could even be "liberated" from an old generator to keep the woodruff key slot, threaded ends etc.. On the shaft have a couple of pulley wheels appropriately sized to drive your modern alternator and a/c pump, which you position in the space cleared by losing the dizzy and fuel pump when you swap to EFI. You should still have space to run a full turbo system too.
Big advantage is that you don't need to fabricate loads of tinwear, no need to chop the bus around too much, and it'll use basically standard parts (other than the pulley shaft).

[neilsdavies]

In fact, look at drag race VW alternator and vacuum pump set ups. Jay Cee do them, and I think CB Performance do too.