1976 Autotune Gemini - ELVA MKI replica

[Darkspeed]

Apr 16, 2021 20:07:28 GMT teaboy said:

I’m not a fan of powder coating on chassis, or anything external.
It doesn’t offer much protection, it hides corrosion and it is difficult to patch up.
You’re well rid of it me ole Darkness.

If done well it has it's place - office furniture for example. The stuff on this chassis is utter rubbish - no prep and its just so wafer thin. Hopefully his should last a while and is a fair bit better that exposed rust.

[Darkspeed]

Today was a gardening day - and what a day - fantastic.

Plenty of music playing in the old noggin whilst taking in plenty of sunshine.









And my new favourite girl band has some cars in their vid.




And I sat in The Gemini and smiled.

[Darkspeed]

One thing I did do on the Gem yesterday is a tape pull test on the H80 after 24 hours.













I did this due to the fact that it seems to scratch really easily - a simple fingernail can remove this stuff - I had always wondered about the wording in the advertising - "leaves a tenacious protective barrier".

Well its not quite tenacious enough to pass the parcel tape test, parcel tapes grip on it is better than its grip on well abraded and thoroughly cleaned old steel. As it clogs rather than sands off - and I think that is the problem, its a "soft" barrier - it will be a pig to fully remove. Easy on a flat panel - but not so easy on a space frame.

Will need to have a think about the approach on this. Should have stuck with my gut feeling on these sorts of products.

[procrastinator]

That is an interesting result. I assumed the gloop caused some kind of chemical reaction in the metal surface. Was also going to do a spaceframe, think maybe not now.

[Darkspeed]

It seems to be just an 'acid' in a sort of PVA solution. The acid reacts with rust and the PVA just provides a sealed barrier to any further oxidation - Thing is it just not an adhesive/robust enough finish. Far better is to just use a direct rust converter - Phosphoric acid etc. without any sort of "barrier" and then clean and paint with an epoxy. Or what I will be doing in the future - Just mechanically remove as much of the corrosion as is possible then just roller epoxy mastic straight over it then colour finish.

[jonomisfit]

I tend to flat it all off once dried, and the only bits it remains in is any pitting below surface level.

Its then epoxy over the top for a decent barrier

[75swb]

Just had a catch up on this for the first time in a few months. Great to see the progress, and a very achievable 'to do' list! You'll be whizzing down the country lanes with the sun on your back soon enough. Shame about the powder coat and hydrate 80 but at least this will be a proper job when it's done

[Darkspeed]

Apr 18, 2021 16:29:27 GMT jonomisfit said:

I tend to flat it all off once dried, and the only bits it remains in is any pitting below surface level.

Its then epoxy over the top for a decent barrier

Cannot see me ever using it again - it just adds extra work over treating with a simple Phosphoric acid type solution - utter rubbish on a tube chassis - and would seem quite pointless on bodywork if you sand it all off again!

[jonomisfit]

I'll keep this in mind when I start cleaning back the morris's chassis

[Darkspeed]

A rather large amount of epoxy mastic arrived today for the chassis - which will also be plenty for the Strato's chassis and the G27 chassis !

The colours also happens to be the same RAL 7024 Graphite Grey as I bought to paint the Strato's chassis but ended up being applied the the G15 engine cover as a test spray out..... Its just called Carbon Grey by the epoxy manufacturer





Best get on with some painting - lots of painting. - After even more sanding - although most of the H80 removal process will be giving the chassis a sort of hot wax hair removal process but with parcel tape!

Did a bit more today and on some of the harder to reach heavy rusted areas of the chassis where I could not get the grinders into so could only use 60 grit paper by hand, it not only pulled the H80 off but the "converted" skin came off with rust still present - so it only converts a micro thin layer of rust that is only sealed by a coating that can be pulled off with parcel tape.

H80 - £17 for 500ml

Phosphoric acid - £17 for 5000ml

[varelse]

Hmm, interesting.
Considering how often a few others on here throw it around.
Nothing like that is really available over here I don't think.
Just your generic rust converters which are more or less the acid you normally use.
I had wondered if I should go to the effort of tracking some down, but tbh I haven't seemed to have any problems yet with cleaning back and a decent coat of etch primer. We don't have nearly the same amount of damp over here though.
I've left my wings in etch through the rain season and they've come out the other side unscathed even though the garage had minor flooding!

I guess that's the benefit of 30degree heat after rain... D:

[Darkspeed]

Not sure whether I was going to to put it here with a car with Libres or on the G27 pages with the V8 -

Anyway

Cheers Monte - RIP buddy

variety.com/2021/film/obituaries-people-news/monte-hellman-dead-dies-director-two-lane-blacktop-1234956241/

[Darkspeed]

Bit of work on the Gemini - started the day by sanding off that awful H80 stuff - more than doubled the work getting the chassis done - fecking stuff will take all week to fully remove its just horrible.

Great on the underside of a truck etc. that has had a wire brush run over it ready to be covered on Black Shutz or some such but not for anything else I own.

So after quickly getting fed up with that task I decided that to move forward with this project then I need more going back ! So out cam the drill to remove more panels.


I wanted to get to the fuel line and the wiring. And also remove all the cable ties that had been used






The ties left an annoying row of lumps all along the alloy - not seen when carpeted but when raw - Yuck.




And then there was the issue of the fuel line - soft - being crushed all the way to the engine - how any fuel did manage to get through is a minor miracle.









Even more work to do.





Sorry bizzo this will take a bit longer than expected so too make up for it I gave all those inlet valves for your Crossflow a 30 degree backcut.











I left the seat width at 2.5mm - RBE likes to have the seat back a little the outside edge of the valve - so it will leave a large 2mm seat face - I use 1.2mm-1.5 on my engines but RB can blend it a little more to get the seat width he likes.

I also knocked the ridge off the back of the exhaust valves .

[bizzo]

Cool! Thanks. Had no idea the valves were going to get the WG / RBE treatment, they were only included to match the port size... That then assumes that RBE won't reject them as not being large enough for 'full race' :-))))

[blackpopracing]

Andrew are you referring to Hydrate 80?

I've used it on the car I'm doing now and I find it dries rock hard and its almost impossible to remove even with the DA? Seems to do what it says on the tin. I'm only using it on the rusted areas, good metal I'm leaving bare for primer.

PS, it only takes about 20 mins to dry?

[Darkspeed]

Apr 27, 2021 20:28:13 GMT blackpopracing said:

Andrew are you referring to Hydrate 80?

I've used it on the car I'm doing now and I find it dries rock hard and its almost impossible to remove even with the DA? Seems to do what it says on the tin. I'm only using it on the rusted areas, good metal I'm leaving bare for primer.

PS, it only takes about 20 mins to dry?

Yep - Bilt Hydrate 80 - Not impressed at all - as above peels off with tape scrapes off pretty easy and really does very little to the underlying rust. I have followed the instructions to the letter, shaken vigorously, made sure nothing is stuck on the bottom etc. Cannot say it dries rock hard - not like epoxy does. It sands off but clogs the paper - on a flat panel it would be easier to use, but on a space frame it's just dreadful.

[blackpopracing]

Interesting - after I replied last night I went out and applied some duct tape to the panel I had treated. Pressed it down hard and then tore it off as fast as I could.
It only removed a few 1mm speckles of hydrate 80.

I find it turns black in a couple of minutes on rusty metal but dries a dark brown on good metal. If I go over it with 40 grit on the DA it will scratch it up but wont remove it. Polystrip discs in the grinder will take it off though.

I wonder if you have a duff bottle?

[Darkspeed]

Duct tape did not work for me - Mostly left white bits of duct tape behind - Parcel tape removed swathes - I tend to use parcel tape as my go to test tape. I also do not see the point of using it if the usual practice is to sand it all off again. I really wanted it to work and be as good as it was made out to be because feck me its a PITA as it either rips of in sheets or when it does hold on it clogs and creates a mess - and on four separate sides of loads of individual tubes its a fecking pig to get back to a stage where I can paint it. Its most likely that most people would have just given it a rough over with a bit of Scotchbright pad panel wiped it and painted it. Job done. I just had question the use of "Tenacious" LOL.

Yep probably going to have to attack the chassis all over again with the Poly discs. Long weekend ahead so will keep me busy.

[blackpopracing]

I'll try some parcel tape as well as another test & report back.

I tend to not trust any of them as many decades ago I painted a front wing after treating it. Paint fell off in swathes so I've been wary ever since.

It's great in the nooks and crannies - hence why I only treat the rusty bits and leave the good metal alone.

[Darkspeed]

Have been suffering from some waning enthusiasm of late due to one thing and another but felt a little more motivated this morning so I mixed up some epoxy and got painting.





Interesting that the red oxide colour highlights the amount of steel that there is in the front of the car. It also goes a way to explain what a PITA it is to paint all sides of the tubes.





I have decided to put a couple of coats of epoxy on the chassis so have chosen to use a red oxide first coat - I had red oxide epoxy left over from some painting on the Strato's. This will provide a nice bright coat to ensure I get full coverage with the second coat First coat will get a light sand off before the final coat of the Carbon Grey.