Dealer selling car “privately”

[awoo]

Just curious about this, as I’ve seen cars advertised by car dealers, who say ‘this is my own car i’ve been using and therefore no warranties or guarantees implied, no refunds’ etc.

I figured that was just fair enough it’s not a trade car.

But a lady at work bought a 2010 vw camper like this, a car dealer who said very clearly he was a car dealer and therefore he only keeps the best ones for himself and has a garage at his disposal to look after them.

She bought it with her husband on the basis of colour, how reflective the paint was, the pop up roof, it has a built in tv screen etc, rather than on mechanical condition, history and someone checking it over properly.

Fast forward a few months and very few miles, I noticed when she rolled up with it at work that it was leaking oil, I said it should get checked out as it shouldn’t be dripping oil like that. Apparently it was the fuel pump.

I asked how good it was on diesel. Turns out it was petrol. (It sounded like a bag of spanner’s so I assumed it was diesel). About a week later it breaks down and cause was the head gasket.

I suggested at the time she gets it properly checked before buying but she said he was a nice guy and ran a garage so it will be fine. Turns out it’s a lemon and I think it would have been picked up on by anyone who knew what to look for.


So my question is, when a dealer says it’s my own car, no refunds, are they really saying buyer beware?

Since paying more attention to car ads I have seen this on a car I am interested in and has got me wondering.


Also she is looking down the small claim route so would be helpful to know.

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2020 18:17:56 GMT awoo said:

Just curious about this, as I’ve seen cars advertised by car dealers, who say ‘this is my own car i’ve been using and therefore no warranties or guarantees implied, no refunds’ etc.

I figured that was just fair enough it’s not a trade car.

But a lady at work bought a 2010 vw camper like this, a car dealer who said very clearly he was a car dealer and therefore he only keeps the best ones for himself and has a garage at his disposal to look after them.

She bought it with her husband on the basis of colour, how reflective the paint was, the pop up roof, it has a built in tv screen etc, rather than on mechanical condition, history and someone checking it over properly.

Fast forward a few months and very few miles, I noticed when she rolled up with it at work that it was leaking oil, I said it should get checked out as it shouldn’t be dripping oil like that. Apparently it was the fuel pump.

I asked how good it was on diesel. Turns out it was petrol. (It sounded like a bag of spanner’s so I assumed it was diesel). About a week later it breaks down and cause was the head gasket.

I suggested at the time she gets it properly checked before buying but she said he was a nice guy and ran a garage so it will be fine. Turns out it’s a lemon and I think it would have been picked up on by anyone who knew what to look for.


So my question is, when a dealer says it’s my own car, no refunds, are they really saying buyer beware?

Since paying more attention to car ads I have seen this on a car I am interested in and has got me wondering.


Also she is looking down the small claim route so would be helpful to know.

Personally my policy is if a person is a car dealer, and they're selling a car off their forecourt/showroom/lot, but they say it's a personal sale or a trade sale... walk away. They're just trying to shift the sh1t they got lumbered with in a PX without any come backs.

[duggers]

Small claims will look at any receipt (I assume they got one?)and if it says sold as seen no warranty given or implied, trade sale no warranty etc they will not have a good case.
If it doesn't and the car was 'in trade' and not registered to the vendor they may do better.

If he sold it with known issues and deliberately did not disclose them (hard to prove) even a private sale can be challenged in the SCC.

Caveat Emptor rules here.

[Deleted]

(Optional anecdote)

Late last summer I went to look at a late 60's yank on the forecourt of a car seller's business. He sells old yanks and hot rods but also little modern hatchbacks.

The car looked okay in a brief inspection lying on the ground. We went for a very short drive (dealer drove it round the block with us as passengers).

He was willing to knock a couple of grand off the overpriced window sticker price, but he also became quite aggressive and pushy.

He asked me to give him £1000 deposit and when I smiled and politely refused, he got a little bit personal (about my face. He didnt like it. It was, apparently, the face of a dreamer and time waster).

So I walked away.

He then started messaging me trying to get me to give him a deposit.

I told him there was no way Id hand over 1k without a proper inspection, a proper serious drive round and an understanding of his terms of sale.

He said there were no terms. It's an old car so its sold as seen with no warranties. Fair enough. Not sure why I'm paying forecourt prices for a forecourt sale of an old nail if he isnt going to cover any potential eventualities though. I may as well buy off ebay or whatever. So I did that.

I heard last week that car has just gone to its third owner in the last few months. Lots of rot, some bad repairs, engine shagged out. Bit of a lemon.

It's definitely buyer beware territory if they want to act like a private sale.

[nomad]

Bookmarked, but I have nothing useful to add.

Interesting to see the comment above about dealers selling junk trade-in privately to get rid of them with no comeback.

Anecodatal : I paid good money a couple of years ago for a semi-modern car being sold privately. I went for a test drive, all seemed fine but seller wouldn't drop his price. I paid (not cheap) then found out The same car was advertised at a garage owned by sellers brother.
Buying from the garage would have got me some gaurentee by would have cost £2k extra. Buyers choice?
For info, I've had very few times since I bought it when it has worked 100%, a lemon or just a typical "they all do that, sir" modern?

[Ritchie]

I once bought an E39 M5 from a branch manager at a well known large UK care sales chain.
It was on the forecourt, and he told be he was getting a divorce and it was either this M5 (that his wife used apparently, sounded fishy to me) or his Porsche that had to go.
He was obviously attached to the Porsche as I got it for a steal and it was a cracking car, kept it for 7 years with only routine maintenance.
I did feel wary at the time though and would certainly go in with eyes open.

[ChasR]

I must be in the minority here?

Most dealer warranties (bar a main dealer and even then it's only from the likes of VW, Audi or BMW) aren't worth the paper they are written on IME ; Palmdale Motors site once had a glossary detailing just how bad this is. The aforementioned dealers do have a 12 month warranty via Mondial which is no different to a new car warranty ; but that's the only example I've seen.

Within 1 month (unless it's a trade sale) you can throw the car back at them under one of the Sales acts. After 1 month, you're pretty much on your own was my understanding, or maybe I've always seen it from the wrong side

The main reason people go to a dealer over a private is:
-Convenience (they're open and more accessible) ; I for one can't sell a car during the week ; My time off is limited.
-More accepting of varying payments ; See my experience below.
-Aforementioned 30 day rule (the car has to be accepted back if not satisfied) ; I don't think this applies to private buyers or trade sales
-Security - most people I know wouldn't dream of handing over alot of cash to a private seller (bar something like CCA/Silverstone Auctions), but feel that with most traders being registered and with credit card payments, they're easier to deal with.

I know of a few people who have only ever bought cars off traders and never privately.

I'm also currently having a seller pay cash for my Merc ; a trader would accept that, but maybe I'm wrong to want to bank it first? After all, it's a pretty big risk IMHO to take on a car of that value.

Yup, I do go in wary with alot of traders! While I haven't been victim I have seen others be victims of this.

www.palmdale.co.uk/newsletters/090820/

[comfortablynumb]

I used to work in that ‘mechanical breakdown insurance’ you see advertised on tv etc
Not only was I encouraged to refuse any claim if at all possible, if I could invalidate the policy at the same time that was extra brownie points!
I don’t mind things that are straight, but when I can’t justify something to myself and it’s keeping me awake at night it’s time to go
I threw it In because I’ve rarely seen anything so crooked
Aftermarket warranty? Don’t make me laugh!

[paul99]

Feb 5, 2020 18:59:45 GMT duggers said:

Small claims will look at any receipt (I assume they got one?)and if it says sold as seen no warranty given or implied, trade sale no warranty etc they will not have a good case.
If it doesn't and the car was 'in trade' and not registered to the vendor they may do better.

If he sold it with known issues and deliberately did not disclose them (hard to prove) even a private sale can be challenged in the SCC.

Caveat Emptor rules here.

aiui, a dealer cannot under the law simply void the sale of goods act like that. (fit for purpose etc) hence trying to hide behind a 'private sale'......

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2020 6:28:30 GMT ChasR said:

I must be in the minority here?

Most dealer warranties (bar a main dealer and even then it's only from the likes of VW, Audi or BMW) aren't worth the paper they are written on IME ; Palmdale Motors site once had a glossary detailing just how bad this is. The aforementioned dealers do have a 12 month warranty via Mondial which is no different to a new car warranty ; but that's the only example I've seen.

Within 1 month (unless it's a trade sale) you can throw the car back at them under one of the Sales acts. After 1 month, you're pretty much on your own was my understanding, or maybe I've always seen it from the wrong side

The main reason people go to a dealer over a private is:
-Convenience (they're open and more accessible) ; I for one can't sell a car during the week ; My time off is limited.
-More accepting of varying payments ; See my experience below.
-Aforementioned 30 day rule (the car has to be accepted back if not satisfied) ; I don't think this applies to private buyers or trade sales
-Security - most people I know wouldn't dream of handing over alot of cash to a private seller (bar something like CCA/Silverstone Auctions), but feel that with most traders being registered and with credit card payments, they're easier to deal with.

I know of a few people who have only ever bought cars off traders and never privately.

I'm also currently having a seller pay cash for my Merc ; a trader would accept that, but maybe I'm wrong to want to bank it first? After all, it's a pretty big risk IMHO to take on a car of that value.

Yup, I do go in wary with a lot of traders! While I haven't been victim I have seen others be victims of this.

www.palmdale.co.uk/newsletters/090820/

As far as I have ever understood it, dealer warranties are, of themselves, as dependable as used toilet paper. But they serve a symbolic purpose as part of a set of parameters that create a clear distinction between a sale from business to consumer and a private sale between individuals. Its that distinction that is important more than the warranty.

If I was buying (eg) a shitbox 68 Dodge Coronet from a car dealer's forecourt for £11k and that dealer specialises in American classic cars, I would want it to be a sale from that business, and with a warranty from/via that business, because irrespective of what that warranty may or may not cover, I've bought from a business and if it turned out the car was dangerously unfit for use, there is a better chance of addressing that as a consumer addressing a business.

I'm not saying it becomes a cast iron assurance, and no doubt other people will feel differently, but each to their own. I'll buy private, or I'll buy off a business, but I wont buy private off a business* because you have to ask why a car dealer is trying to shift something on privately if it was obtained through the business. It's just a signifier of possible hassle ahead.

* I think it all comes down to the specific situation though. There isn't really a blanket rule. If a car dealer advertised a car as an unwanted PX that doesn't fit with his stock or his niche, and he declares it's a private sale for that reason, and it's being sold on for a cheap price after being given a bit of due care just to ensure it's okay... then maybe I would consider that because I can see for myself "he's got a forecourt full of second hand Mercs, Beemers and Porsches and somebody's PX'd a Ford Fiesta onto him".... I can appreciate there may be an honest reason, stated upfront, for wanting to move old tin on with minimal fuss for a cheap price.

[madmog]

I sold a car via a dealer who sells off the front of his house. He was legit and made the point that he always sold as a trader with all obligations therein and never privately. As I chose to sell on commission I signed up to the same obligations as a trader. Ie he covered his risk selling my car but took the risk where he sold cars he'd bought.

[daklone]

Feb 5, 2020 18:17:56 GMT awoo said:

Just curious about this, as I’ve seen cars advertised by car dealers, who say ‘this is my own car i’ve been using and therefore no warranties or guarantees implied, no refunds’ etc.

I figured that was just fair enough it’s not a trade car.

But a lady at work bought a 2010 vw camper like this, a car dealer who said very clearly he was a car dealer and therefore he only keeps the best ones for himself and has a garage at his disposal to look after them.

She bought it with her husband on the basis of colour, how reflective the paint was, the pop up roof, it has a built in tv screen etc, rather than on mechanical condition, history and someone checking it over properly.

Not wishing to be unsympathetic, why on earth would someone who is not able to inspect the vehicle themselves part with £10k or more for such a vehicle without getting a professional inspection??

Feb 5, 2020 18:17:56 GMT awoo said:

Fast forward a few months and very few miles, I noticed when she rolled up with it at work that it was leaking oil, I said it should get checked out as it shouldn’t be dripping oil like that. Apparently it was the fuel pump.

I asked how good it was on diesel. Turns out it was petrol. (It sounded like a bag of spanner’s so I assumed it was diesel). About a week later it breaks down and cause was the head gasket.

I suggested at the time she gets it properly checked before buying but she said he was a nice guy and ran a garage so it will be fine. Turns out it’s a lemon and I think it would have been picked up on by anyone who knew what to look for.

So my question is, when a dealer says it’s my own car, no refunds, are they really saying buyer beware?

I think you'll find that any time you buy from a 'private seller', it is a case of buyer beware. The whole 'I'm a dealer but this is my own vehicle' should add an extra note of caution on top though.

I'm not saying they're all dodgy, but you need to put your cynical head on and think about why a seller would mention it in the first place.

Feb 5, 2020 18:17:56 GMT awoo said:

Since paying more attention to car ads I have seen this on a car I am interested in and has got me wondering.

Also she is looking down the small claim route so would be helpful to know.

I'd wish her luck with any court action, but wouldn't hold out much hope. Even if it had been a proper trade sale, after 'a few months' it starts to get difficult to prove that the seller could have known about the problems when they sold the vehicle.

[jamesd1972]

Feb 13, 2020 10:51:33 GMT @thousandwords said:

Feb 13, 2020 6:28:30 GMT ChasR said:

For me this is where a dealer should sell to another dealer or auction it - if its off his forecourt and the registration is held 'on trade' then my understanding is that its a dealer sale and all dealer laws apply.
"unwanted PX for quick sale" is simply dealer blah blah and more often than not is simply to get interest in a cheap snotter and try and sidestep the legalities. The legal expectations of a 500 quid snotter -i.e. must be legal when it leaves the forecourt and a 10K car are the same what will be different if it came to it is any faults that come up after that and what you would expect a dealer to sort.
James

[awoo]

Feb 17, 2020 11:39:52 GMT daklone said:

Feb 5, 2020 18:17:56 GMT awoo said:

Just curious about this, as I’ve seen cars advertised by car dealers, who say ‘this is my own car i’ve been using and therefore no warranties or guarantees implied, no refunds’ etc.

I figured that was just fair enough it’s not a trade car.

But a lady at work bought a 2010 vw camper like this, a car dealer who said very clearly he was a car dealer and therefore he only keeps the best ones for himself and has a garage at his disposal to look after them.

She bought it with her husband on the basis of colour, how reflective the paint was, the pop up roof, it has a built in tv screen etc, rather than on mechanical condition, history and someone checking it over properly.

Not wishing to be unsympathetic, why on earth would someone who is not able to inspect the vehicle themselves part with £10k or more for such a vehicle without getting a professional inspection??

I agree there entirely. but as I said, they bought it on spec and the colour, stuff that really doesn't matter and they over look the important bits.

I see this a lot unfortunately, it's become fashionable where I live in Brighton with offensively middle class people who are desperately trying to make out they're working class, to go and buy camper vans.

they all come to me at work asking if this is good and that is good, as I'm the car guy, buy without exception they're completely illogical in their thinking of what makes one good.


i'll tell them something quite rational like don't buy a 30 year old camper with low miles as it will have been sitting around for ages getting rusty and taken out a couple times a year, at least get one with average miles thats been used often.

then their mate who knows nothing at all about cars will say something which sounds better to them like "only buy one with low mileage and has good paint work as you will know they're the best".

two weeks later they turn up with a camper van (this has happened) which looks ok but the underneath is completely rotten, subframe dangling by a thread, mot nearly run out, past mots with a massive list of corrosion issues etc. but only 45k miles...

then I will hear, "well Julia said I must get one with low miles".

two months later it failed the mot with £3000 quote to fix all the rust.


I could go on but I'm rambling.

[daklone]

Ah, DFLs eh?

That's 'Down From London' to the uninitiated. Basically people who sell a cupboard in London for £1M+ and move down to the coast with more money than sense, pushing local house prices through the roof into the bargain.

[Deleted]

Feb 18, 2020 23:04:54 GMT daklone said:

Ah, DFLs eh?

That's 'Down From London' to the uninitiated. Basically people who sell a cupboard in London for £1M+ and move down to the coast with more money than sense, pushing local house prices through the roof into the bargain.

Also in Brighton and yes, it's a haven for DFLs and as awoo says they're all flirting with down-to-earth working class chic because it's just so "delightfully authentic".

[rapidyellow]

I think you'll find that any time you buy from a 'private seller', it is a case of buyer beware. The whole 'I'm a dealer but this is my own vehicle' should add an extra note of caution on top though.

if it was their own private car for sale, then the name on the reg document should reflect that? it would be in their own name at their home address, not in their business name or address, and also the full V5 should be present and another also if it was indeed their own car they were selling then they perhaps will have owned it for a while?

[ballbagbagins]

I've seen a trader deliberately write unreadable text in the v5 new owner section, presumably that allows for some kind of contrived denliability/separation between them and the last private owner.