1928 Ford Model A Sedan- Drag it til the wheels fall off…

[Dez]

Jul 23, 2023 11:10:47 GMT metalshapes said:

I'm not a fan of Holley's either.

For all the reasons you mentioned, and I think that the whole idea of a powervalve is just a clumsy bandaid.

And also the crossover tube to connect the floatbowls on a single feed...

I do like that, on a vacuum secondary, you can dial in the rate at which they open with different springs.

But thats about it....


They have gotten really expensive too.


I have no desire to spend a lot of time learning how to coax the most out of another completely different type of carb ( like the Edelbrock/Carter, or the early Strombergs), so I find myself going back to Webers, most of the time...

That crossover tube. Whoever thought two tiny little o-rings were in any way adequate to prevent fuel under pressure exiting the ends of it is an absolute idiot.

Afaik the powervalve was initially invented to sort out the problem of vac advance not reacting quick enough on old style fully vac distributors. Everyone else ditched them once dual advance vac and centrifugal distributors became the norm in the late 50s. Except holley of course.

[Dez]

With it now running so I could test things, i went through various systems testing stuff and adding wiring to make things work. It soon became apparent that the generator was not generating.


I took it off and had a poke at it. The comm was very dirty so I took it apart to clean it.


Lightly sanded to remove the glaze, and the groove scraped clean. Bushes were also slightly knocked back to remove any glaze too.


All reassembled, no difference. No other obvious faults were found. It’s meant to be a refurbished one, it looks clean/new. I still wasnt 100% it was the generator itself as the wiring for the regulator is a bit odd, so just to check my wiring diagram was correct Instead I dug a manky old filthy one out of my stash, gave it a scrub, fitted it and of course it all works perfect 🙄

Next part of the testing process was to wire in a tach. The mounting location is er, somewhat unconventional 😆
It comes with a curved mount to clamp to a steering column. This allows it to clamp to the gearbox tailshaft quite nicely.



I added a spiral wound stainless conduit to exit the wiring down under the gearbox hidden away. That all works ok and will allow more accurate engine tuning.


I also wired the brake light switch as I’ll need that done to test the indicator wiring.


And this little bundle of wires is what will run up to the steering column for the indicator switch.


But whist I was down in this area I crossed another bracket off my list. It’s for the dipswitch, I like a stomp switch and this was the only area I could fit it and still be able to reach it with my left foot.



It also then got wired.


I have also taken leave of my senses and done this-


Which has allowed me to do this-




I generally have an aversion to shiny, but the layer of soot, unidentified clag and splatters of melted things post-fire were annoying me. It’s mostly the grille shell and headers that need attention, so I did the grille first as a test, and it turned out ok. It’s got dents and stuff that I’ll never remove, but it’s not covered in cr4p now.

Then I went back to the indicator switch and wiring. This so something I’ve had planned for ages. First job was lengthen all the wires on the switch.

Then they were stuffed down this bit of 16mm stainless tube I’d bought. Id already tested the size with a bit of old copper household plumbing pipe, so I knew what to buy.


The end of this had been given a mild flare by battering a tapered drift into it, both to make the wires slip in easier, and make it fit to this wiring guide/divot on the indicator unit better.
I ground the flare off on the inside so it still sat tight to the column.


It was mocked up with zip ties before two tack welds were hidden underneath, after unthreading the wiring again, obviously.


It was then given a mild polish to remove the sizing printed on the tubing, then the wires where threaded back through and crimped up into the corresponding male wiring connector to what I’d used on then bundle of wires heading this way.


Which was duly fitted and connected up.


Quite a neat install, with a minimum of wiring on show.


The unit itself is a signal-stat 900. They’re a 50s accessory american ‘turn signal’ Switch, that have a built-in hazard functions and tell tale lights too. They don’t self cancel, but other then that they’re a fairly ‘modern’ unit in functionality terms. I gave the alloy housing a quick polish whilst it was in bits and it all blends in quite nicely.

What’s more, it actually works. Not that I remembered to take a vid. But, it’s another tick. More than one really as it’s both a ‘bracket’ and a section of wiring done.

[generallee]

[quote author="Dez" source="/post/2790655/thread" timestamp="1690139403"

"]

The unit itself is a signal-stat 900. They’re a 50s accessory american ‘turn signal’ Switch, that have a built-in hazard functions and tell tale lights too. They don’t self cancel, but other then that they’re a fairly ‘modern’ unit in functionality terms. I gave the alloy housing a quick polish whilst it was in bits and it all blends in quite nicely.
[/quote]

I think they are still available new (I have driven Kalmar shunt motors fitted with them, not sure if they had a tell tale though), classic American "it works, why change it"

I had no idea they dated back so far.

[jimi]

If your generator is a dynamo, then it may have lost it's residual magnetism and need "flashing" to get it working again. I've come across that problem before when the dynamo has been unused for a long period of time.

[Dez]

I need to keep going with the story here before I forget how utterly nuts the last 3 weeks have been.

But first, some goodies from the states.





I can’t remember if I explained this on here, or if it was a discussion on Facebook. Basically I was being picky about what filter it needed to look right. I had a 8” helling and stellings mushroom type chrome filter that I tried, part of a pair from a 2x4 setup I have. I liked the period look, but it was too small overall, the carb was bigger than it. But then a generic 14” open edge filter was too big and looked too new. It was very 1970s. I really don’t like air cleaners with exposed elements o traditional cars like this. This is an 11” ‘mushroom’ type, that seem quite hard to get now. Eventually I found someone on us eBay who would ship to the uk, and 3 weeks later I have it. Turns out it’s made by United pacific like a lot of other reasonable quality repro stuff, they just didn’t list it as a product they did and I had to find it by going backwards and it came from a smallish speed shop.

Happy with that, I went back to a previous job and wired the headlights.


Pushing on with the finishing of bracketry, I added the needed extra mounts and brackets for the heel plate. This is in front of the pedals and is basically a small section of false floor that gives me somewhere to rest my feet, and conveniently hides most of the electrics under it too.

It already had two screws bolting it to the gearbox crossmember, but needed something at the front edge. The first of which was a 1/4” peg for a hole drilled in the return lip to slip over. This was drilled straight through the chassis rail and plug welded on the outside.



That gave me 3 corners, for the 4th one I didn’t have much to work with so had to bring a bracket across from the pedal assembly tray. This corner arguably holds the most weight, so it had to be quite beefy.






There you can also see I’d now removed the remains of the old floor skin. Here it is.



This was to allow me to use it as a template for the front half of the new one, and allow access to finish some other brackets.

Battery tray got positioned and welded, as did the fuse box bracket next to it.



Then I did this-





The date at this point was the 27th of July…

[Dez]

The next day was a weldathon. Going round finishing off any brackets etc that had only been tacked, and grinding off any old ones from previous floor setups etc.
a lot of it was fairly boring but hard work as it involved turning the chassis over a lot for access.


It was flipped over and everything done from the bottom side too.


This secondary steering box mount was added to take out a bit of flex on the main mount. It had to be two piece or you can’t get the box off.



I also added a web at the front of the tunnel framing to give it a bit more weld onto the X member.


Seat mount tabs where added too. These are the old body mount tabs cut down a bit.


Old seat mount stuff was ground away, the holes welded up and smoothed off.


Footplate bracket fully welded, and regulator bracket stuck on too.


The next step was to throw some ally at it, and drill and tap a LOT of holes. I’d picked up a couple of sheets cheap a while back that I had stashed away. To be totally honest I now think it’s probably a bit thin, and I’m considering redoing it slightly thicker using this as a template. This is 0.8mm, I think 1.2 would be better.

I originally intended to do the upturn at the back as part of the floor, but that didn’t work very well for a couple of reasons.


The front was cut out a bit bigger than what it was before to allow better bellhousing cover access.


Then the wife came and drove the bead roller for me whilst I fed it through. Tbh she’s not half bad at it!


I did the big fold (that I ended up cutting off after)


Then I did the tunnel section.



Second day and the design change came in, and I did the two back bits separately which worked a lot better.



Not having time to stop and admire it, I also finish welded the rear axle bracketry, and loaded the chassis and axle up to go to the Sandblaster.



After getting messed around by one Sandblaster (well, it appears he’s done a runner from his unit a couple of weeks before, so I guess I dodged a bullet there) I got it to the next nearest one who really pulled out the stops and did a two day turnaround. A few small bits had been missed, but I was more than happy to tidy those bits up given he got it back to me on the Friday so I had the weekend to paint it.


I was convinced it was going to rain on the way home, skies were black as hell so I wrapped it up. Of course it then didn’t rain 🤣


Looking good though. Sandblasting isn’t just about removing old paint and rust, it’s the nice even keyed finish it goes so whatever you put over it sticks well.


The date is now Friday the 4th…

[Dez]

Backtracking slighlty, whilst the chassis and axle where at the blaster, I was getting on with painting everything else. The paint wasnt that badly damaged on most other things, so it was just a good clean, scotchbrite or sand, and a wipe down with thinners. All the stuff that still had a full coating of epoxy didn’t even get reprimed.
The trick there is if you wipe it down with standard thinners just before painting, it softens it so you get very good adhesion.









You end up with a lot of parts when you do stuff like break the springs down to paint the leafs individually!






Before the steering box was painted, it had to have a tickle with this little reamer.


Where is welded on the new mounting flange it has pulled the casing slightly. Not enough to stop it going back together, but enough that it was now a little tight to turn. Amazingly I had a 1-1/4” reamer sat in a drawer, as all the best tool hoarders do 😂


As you can see, it only removed the tiniest amount from the bushes, but they were now straight again and the steering box freely moving.


I also went to Leeds to collect my prop on that Friday morning.


I wasnt quite as happy with dunning and fairbank as I have been at other times tbh, the product is fine but it took twice the time they said, the price went up and they lost the other circlips for the joints. By sheer luck I had some spares, it could have been a big issue if I didn’t, which I expect would have been the case for most normal people who wouldn’t have had a box of random propshaft parts to bail them out of such a situation.

Still, it’s sorted now, once I’d fitted the slip yoke and painted it.


So it’s still Friday the 4th but I’m further on than it previously appeared.

[Dez]

So, Saturday and I’m all fired up to paint the freshly sandblasted stuff. I’m quickly running out of space, the weather ain’t great, and I decide the best place to paint it is in the back of a Luton van I have lying around. Tbh this made a great impromptu booth.

Primer first. This went well despite having to turn it over in a limited space.


I’d also primed the axle, so then I topcoated it. I’d had to spend a fair while jetwashing it out beforehand as even though I thought I’d plugged it up well they still managed to get blasting sand down the ends.


At least the diff was still clean. I painted that separately as it’s a heavy old lump. Easy way to do it is stand it on a bucket!


I then started on the chassis.



Problem. Here is where I ran out of paint. At 6pm on a Saturday.



Much googling lead to the conclusion I wasnt going to be getting any more of this til Monday morning. AR$E.


This didn’t help my schedule at all.

Sunday wasn’t entirely wasted though, I managed to get the rear axle built up with the diff, shafts, all new gaskets and seals, brakes, wheels and suspension parts including the spring of death©️

Tbh I’m pretty happy with the finish I’ve been getting with what is essentially tractor paint.



Spring going together. This is the start of winding the leafs in.


At about this point things start to tighten up and you start to sweat. Not just because of the physical effort, but because of the high stakes jack-in-a-box that this thing is.


Relief.


Then I drove round a few motor factors to buy the fluids I needed. Tbh the first two were less than useless. I ended up at a Wilco motorsave, and I’ve got to hand it to those guys they’ve always done me well. Proper gear oil, classic mineral oil, and a filter by cross referencing part numbers rather than by application. I’d highly recommend them if you have one nearby.


Fun fact, the difference between gl4 and gl5 is gl5 has an additive that corrodes brass, so will trash your syncros. Don’t go using it in your expensive classic gearbag now…

[kevins]

GL5 is supposed to attack yellow metals, so if you have steel synchros you should be OK, conversely if you have any other brass or bronze parts it could be a problem.

That said I ran some tests with it in transmissions with yellow metals about 25 years ago and they were fine.

There is also an issue that many modern gear oils have friction modifiers which have been added to fix an issue in a specific transmission, so what works can be a bit hit and miss.

[glenanderson]

There’s a whole rabbit hole of navel gazing and disinformation about GL5 and yellow metals on most of the Land-Rover forums (as well as the wider internet) if you have a lifetime spare to dive down there.

From what I can make out, it all links back to the additive packs used when the grade was first introduced, and that for many years now the ingredient responsible has been modified to make it safe. As far as I can tell, unless you’re using an absolutely ancient drum, then none of the current GL5 spec oils have any effect whatsoever on yellow metals. My personal experience, starting eighteen years ago when I had an (almost) unlimited free supply of GL5 from work, which I only finally used the last of very recently, is that GL5 was certainly fine in my Land-Rover’s gearbox; there was no sign of any yellow metal degradation whatsoever when I had it apart.

However, when I finally ran out, I bought GL4…

Because I was spending my own money, and it was cheaper. 🤣

[Dez]

Aug 24, 2023 17:37:12 GMT glenanderson said:

However, when I finally ran out, I bought GL4…

Because I was spending my own money, and it was cheaper. 🤣

Well, there might have been some aspect of that to it 🤣

Tbh, we’re talking ‘60s gearboxes and axles. Anything wet and a bit clarty is probably better than what they were designed for…

[Dez]

Monday morning I ended up in Mansfield, at the doors of midland paint supplies.
Safe to say this place is weird, but in a really cool way. I drove into their car park, thought I was at the back entrance/a derelict building before going round the block to look for their main entrance, not being able to find it, then ringing them and being directed to where I went to start with 🤣
I was told where the entrance was as there was pretty much zero signage apart from the big one on top of the building. and when I walked through the doors it was like I’d just walked into 1988. A shabby old office with everything hidden under reams of paper and mess. There was a small space cleared around a computer and phone in the middle, where the woman I’d spoke to was positioned. It reeks of ‘old family business that’s been there forever’.
As you can probably tell I love places like this, when I started out 20 years ago there were still quite a few around ibises for various things, but now they’re vanishingly rare so it’s amazing to find one ‘in the wild’.
Their prices were also very good-lower than my previous supplier for the same brand product.
After getting my carbon copybook receipt-


I hotfooted it back to base and started frantically chucking paint around again.

By the end of the day I’d put a good few coats on and it was looking pretty good.






This is a xylene based non-catalyst paint, but the quick dry version. Its recoat time is about 15 mins, handleable in 1-2 hours with full hardening after a week. Which means as long as I’m careful I can build it up the next day.
So that’s the end of Monday. It’ll be a running drivable car by midday-ish Friday, right? 🤣

[vitesseefi]

Is it finished yet? 😛

[Dez]

Tuesday was a VERY busy day.

I got all the floor panels bolted up, and Phil came and helped me lift heavy things. This was mostly the chassis out of the van and onto the rear axle assembly, then once we’d also bolted up the front suspension, getting the engine and box into place. This is quite a tight fit and needs to be at exactly the right angle to slide it in and line up on the mounts so a second pair of hands really helps with that.
The front suspension involved a fair bit of swearing and cutting down the bearing adapters as the nuts were bottoming on them and not tightening the bearings.


You can see here the wiring is all largely in place too, I spent a lot do the morning doing that on the bare chassis whilst waiting for Phil to be free for heavy lifting.


I love the high contrast of the bare ally and the gloss black. Prop fitted straight up with no issues.


I think I’d neglected to mention I’d already made and fitted the rear axle brake pipes on the Sunday when I built up the rear axle.


As I’d already done a lot of prep work to speed things up, it all went together pretty well. Having the entire rear axle and engine/box as complete painted assemblies helped a lot. By the end of play it almost looked drivable, even though it wasn’t. It rolled and steered, but there’s a lot of smaller (but all 100% necessary for drivability) issues to sort.

[Dez]

Wednesday was working through a lot do the nuts and bolts of making stuff work.

It had got to the point done having a list.


The wheel spacers were to counteract an issue caused by the brake adaptation. I knew there was a problem to sort, and had planned ahead to fix it.

The issue was this-

It had come about as you basically have to damage the drums to split them from the hubs, which I had to do to redrill then to take the dodge artillery wheels.
Because the studs are swaged over to retain the drums, It pulls the holes and distorts them as you press them apart. The drums then have to be faced both sides, making the studs fractionally too long so the wheels won’t tighten up.
To get around it I got some spacers lazercut and counterbored the back side of the holes oversize.


These then knocked on (they’re a tight fit) and take up the extra stud length, plus hold the drums on tightly which is handy.


So my wheels now bolt up properly so that’s one job jobbed.

The next job was actually multiple smaller jobs that all into together to make the brakes work. Pedal assemblies were painted, built up and fitted, then brake lines made, residual pressure valves added in-line (as the drums are higher than the master cylinders) and the chassis drilled and tapped for reet fanceh stainless hold down tabs.


The routing is tight, here the lines step down to run under the seat.

Front lines are 1/4” to match the hoses(which aren’t stock either). all fords up to ‘49 use 1/4” lines not 3/16”. This necessitated a tricky setup to get a 3/16” line into a t-piece with 2x 1/4” exits, I just happened to have the t-piece in my stash of useful junk and car builder solutions supplied the problem solver 7/16” thread Union for 3/16” pipe.
The non-stock hoses are a well known cheat, they’re the rears off ‘40s Ford big trucks which have the same unions as cars but the hose is a load longer, which I needed for my extended front end. They’re like £15 each instead of real money for custom ones.


Things are tight around the master cyls (a pair of 3/4” Wilwoods with a bias bar).


Front RPV is tucked up here out the way.


Rear one is right next to the ignition switch 😂


The brakes actually went together dead easy and bled up with no fuss (with an easybleed). I had one minor leak from the rear RPV which was easily sorted. After than I did the same with the clutch, it was removed as a sealed system so I just had to bolt it back up and adjuster the pushrod to get a biting point.

I then fitted the new longer throttle cable so it’s routing could be ticked away, and the fuel hard lines and connected them up with some short bits of hose. I now had a ‘car’ that started on the key, and had all 3 pedals working. All fluids had been checked and filled at this point too.

I spent the rest of the day on wiring, fitting the lights, and general tidying.

This left me with just a few key jobs for Thursday- finishing off a few things underneath, namely the back end of the floor and some extra bolts, shortening and clipping up the handbrake cables, fitting a seat, and the huge elephant in the room- the leaky rad…

[Sweetpea]

I can't get over how it's suddenly clean and shiny. The transformation in such a short space of time is more than my little brain can cope with. Brilliant stuff. Keep going!

[Dez]

Aug 29, 2023 21:18:50 GMT Sweetpea said:

I can't get over how it's suddenly clean and shiny. The transformation in such a short space of time is more than my little brain can cope with. Brilliant stuff. Keep going!

It was always going to be a bit like that. There was still bits of melted glass and roof tile in the undertray when I removed it! But yeah blaring and paint is a big step and a major transformation.

[Dez]

Things came to a head on Thursday.

First I finished off that floor underneath, and the handbrake cables. Even clipped the long one up to to diff to keep it off the floor.


I also fitted the seat but neglected to photograph it.

The real major issue was this. That’s not even running/under pressure, it’s just from filling the rad.


This crappy bit of seam is the issue. Really quite obvious if you actually looked at it, and another annoyance of relying on someone else who claims to know better than you them lets you down.



Figuring I couldnt make it any worse, I dragged my household plumbing kit from where I redid the house out and set to with the blowtorch, flux, wire brush and a roll of solder. It took 2 goes but I got it.

The rad still does have one other minor leak, a weep from the lower can where the core attaches, but it’s slight, and has reduced somewhat since running it a bit so I reckon the block sludge has partially plugged it. I reckon it would radweld but for now I don’t want to contaminate the rad just in case.


You know what that means? I means out onto the lay-by to set up and adjust the brakes, clutch, steering, and everything else. Its handy having the lay-by outside as it means I can do these things without having to play with traffic.



By the time Phil had come round again to hold the camera, I was confident enough with it to actually be playing with the traffic. I said I’d drive it without the body on!



And yes that was a bit of a flick as I pulled out 😬

Returning from a blast up the village.



There were a list of issues to sort but nothing too major. The track rod ran out of adjustment before the wheels were pointing the right way so I had to shorten that, a wheel bearing had gone slack so that was adjusted, as was the brakes multiple times as they started to bed in. I don’t think I had to assess anything else at this stage? Not bad to say it was thrown back together in three days.

[ducklooker]

That must be a huge buzz!!
Cool as a penguins under-carrige Dez

[npp]

looks like a lot of fun! Do you actually neet a body?