60six
Posted a lot
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Posts: 1,658
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Aug 31, 2020 19:57:11 GMT
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Learnt to weld as I was in the same situation - years ago there were many mobile welding outfits as there were plenty of fiestas etc with rusty sills. Picked up a brand new old stock sip migmate - dodgy wire feed but soon sorted that. Always assign a set of clothes purely for welding in - you will destroy many items of good clothing if you don't.
Auto darkening helmet - cheap, but make sure you have a lens that has a replaceable battery. The solar ones really don't last long and take forever to charge. Mine has a cr2032 battery to darken the lens.
You will get through wire unexpectedly quickly so always buy two when only one is needed. Amazon gets you the wire next day. See if you can assign an area of your garage strictly for welding so doing the little bits is far easier. Getting a gas bottle can be difficult as they are normally exchange only - I spoke to my local pub and got an empty one, then any welding store can direct you to a refiller.
Practice daily on various pieces of metal - muck around with the settings, get the right settings for the right thicknesses of metal & your preferred wire speed.
Now the hardest thing for me to deal with is the lack of things to weld, once I have done all my welding - some days you will be on a roll and having to stop is frustrating.
One other important thing - once you have put on all the gear, the gloves, the helmet, and are ready to go - your phone will go off. turn it off before welding.
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Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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duncanmartin
Club Retro Rides Member
Out of retro ownership
Posts: 1,320
Club RR Member Number: 70
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When you are learning, it's worth going to your local steel stockist and getting some off-cuts (anything from 2mm to 0.9mm, starting thicker). It's really hard to learn on scrap panels because they start off thin and after you have stripped the paint and rust off there is very little metal left. Good clean consistent steel makes life so much easier (and is absolutely necessary if you want to try TIG). Plus it means you know where to go when you want to get some sheet to make new panel patches.
Get gloves (they are super cheap), a decent auto darkening helmet, and either a nice thick coat or apron that you are happy to burn holes in.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,983
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Sept 1, 2020 10:36:31 GMT
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By all means learn to weld if you have the desire (it's a great skill to master), but don't do it to save a few quid on your current repairs. Should you give welding your pride and joy a go with very little experience and under less than ideal circumstances and make a mess of it, it'll very likely be a frustrating start of your welding career (if it ever takes off from there). also, if someone else has to sort your mess they will charge a premium (and rightly so).
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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Paul Y
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,948
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Sept 1, 2020 15:39:03 GMT
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All good advice. My 2p's worth - look in the usual places for a good second hand machine or ask on here. I got a Snap On (rebadged Cerbera) MIG a roll of wire and a huge full bottle of gas for £100. Best bang for the buck ever. The one thing I would not skimp on is a good mask. I originally bought a Clarke one for about £30-40 and could understand why I couldn't see anything. Then used a friends SpeedGlas mask and understood why the problem was... Spent £100 on a SpeedGlas lid and my welds improved no end. Gloves are less than £10 from Tool station or the like - I also have a set of welding sleeves after I learnt the hard way about welding in a T shirt... I use an old woollen jacket as protection, keep looking at the leather smocks but never got round to buying one. Eventually I will upgrade to a better welder but for what I do mine is adequate - my advice, just give it a go. Whats the worst that could happen? P.
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Sept 1, 2020 17:33:56 GMT
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So much good advice already given - I don't know if I can add much more, other than to share my experience. I needed welding on my Rover so after checking around I got a guy to come over and do the job - the car wasn't mobile. Long story short, this so called professional, with 30 + years in the auto body trade did some of the worst pigeon sh1t welding I have ever seen. It was bad that I figured if I got me a "my-first-little-welder" then had a skinful of larger I couldn't have done worse. I bought a basic MIG welder from Eastwood - this I think was my first mistake. It is a perfectly fine little welder and will be up to most tasks when it comes to sheet metal on the Rover or even the County Squire, but anything much more substantial and it struggles. I would recommend that you buy the best quality welder you can afford - budget is important but don't let it be the driving factor. I also regret not getting a machine capable of TIG - I never thought I would want to TIG but now I am limited to MIG I feel otherwise. The same advice applies to welding helmets - I bought a cheapo helmet at first, and while I thought I could see what I was doing the reality is that I couldn't. I ended up giving away my first helmet and getting a Lincoln Viking - can't remember which one now but, well worth the investment. For the first few years I had my welder I did okay - me and a mate took a one day hobby class that wasn't bad and gave me confidence to press on. Eventually I signed up at a local college and took an introduction to welding class - a lot of what we learned wasn't important to me as it applied to those getting into the trade. But, I met some great people that were really friendly and always ready with advice and encouragement. I got an intro to TIG, Oxyacetylene and had the chance to play with stick - I took a pass though. I also got a ton of time in a booth playing with someone else's equipment with free gas, wire and scrap. I am now much better than I was (I won't say I'm a welder though!) Gloves are cheap, and the first time you burn yourself you will curse not having them - you will even burn yourself with gloves. Make sure all the clothing you wear is natural, jeans, cotton or woolen shirts and decent leather boots - the first time a spark gets into your trainer and lands on your foot you'll know why YouTube is loaded with great videos giving advice - and of course when you want inspiration there are some great welders on here tonybmw springs to mind - and he was one of the reasons I ended up on this forum. TL/DR - go for it and get the best equipment you can afford.
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Last Edit: Sept 1, 2020 18:19:15 GMT by wildrover
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Sept 1, 2020 18:12:37 GMT
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One other piece of advice, if you need reading glasses to read something a foot or so away you need to wear them when welding!
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,886
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Sept 1, 2020 19:46:23 GMT
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One other piece of advice, if you need reading glasses to read something a foot or so away you need to wear them when welding! Or get a suitable cheater lens for your welding helmet Very useful bit of plastic - I would also say if that is what you need consider buying a welding helmet that accepts a cheater lens or don’t and then use trucker tape
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 983
Club RR Member Number: 13
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Speaking of glasses. If you wear contact lenses, don't wear them when welding.
Light. Get some good led strip lights for when you're under the car so you can flood it with light. I'll always have an led hand torch shining on whatever I'm welding.
Does anyone use a respirator when welding? I always have the intention to buy one when I've finished whatever job I'm welding. Then only remember again when I start the next one.
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duncanmartin
Club Retro Rides Member
Out of retro ownership
Posts: 1,320
Club RR Member Number: 70
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Sept 2, 2020 10:07:50 GMT
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All good advice. My 2p's worth - look in the usual places for a good second hand machine or ask on here. I got a Snap On (rebadged Cerbera) MIG a roll of wire and a huge full bottle of gas for £100. Best bang for the buck ever. Absolutely this. Also, don't be afraid to look up your local welding supplies people and ask them. Sometimes they end up taking broken or well used industrial kit in part exchange and fixing it. I ended up with a secondhand Murex Tradesmig with wire, a new torch and regulator and some odds and ends for around £200 after I called up looking to buy a hobby welder. You might also get a demonstration of what everything does and how to use it.
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Sept 2, 2020 12:50:19 GMT
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In all honesty if you don't even have a garage to do it in youre far better paying somone else to do it.
That's not to say learning is a bad idea but the first thing I'd be acquiring is a place to learn. Doing boadywork is a long drawn out task not somthing you want to be doing on your driveway at mercy of the weather and what not.
It irks me a bit when people just refer to it as 'welding' too.. welding is only a fraction of what you need to be able to do to make that job happen to any kind of acceptable standard. Theres a whole host of equipment you need to do bodywork repairs on top of the welder and welding equipment.
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Sept 2, 2020 16:29:38 GMT
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Just reading what courses are on atbthe local college.
18 week intro to mig is £150. Same details and price for intro to tig.
It's 6-9 pm so could be done after work.
Anything like that near you?
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 983
Club RR Member Number: 13
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Sept 2, 2020 16:45:12 GMT
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This may be of interest.
I replaced the rear out riggers, side rails, rebuilt the bottom of a b-post and some other welding work on the herald over three weeks. Put about £60 onto the electricity bill. Add in the raw materials such as the metal and paint and it'd be around £150 all in. A friend had his sills replaced in his mr2 which took a week and cost £1000, not including buying the sills.
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Last Edit: Sept 2, 2020 16:45:55 GMT by ferny
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Sept 2, 2020 20:44:27 GMT
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Cheers again for all the info everyone. I'm going through it all bit by bit and trying to figure out how I can get my hands on a welder/when is the best time. I didn't think the welding I need to do would be easy anyway and figured that this probably isnt the right time. It is something I've always fancied doing and a few times thought I should get one and learn. These inner wings I'll get a quote. Also, I don't have access to a garage here but If I could drive whatever I wanted to weld to my folks house in Stoke, they have a garage with electricity. I was thinking maybe its something I could rope my Dad into learning as well... possibly. Hes into his old cars too. I had a look around at stuff such as seem sealer and looked up a few youtube videos to see some techniques. That sounds like a saving ! I did wonder how much electricity it would use. Thats wild how much the Mr2 sill cost. I guess it depends on the garage really. I know its a bit of a generic video but I was interested to see the different type of welds etc described here. Although, its a bit slick and I'm sure its not as easy as this guy makes out. Never seen the plug weld before. Also watched a few videos on seem sealer as I know thats used a lot. Got me thinking.. If you were to weld a pressed inner wing panel to a Car. Would you use this kind of weld to weld it to the bulkhead or the wheel arch? assuming the panel has a lip on it. Also intrigue as to how much welding goes into a panel such as this say, along the wheel arch and how much of it can be seems sealer. I assumed it would be welded all the way along but i'm getting the feeling it now might be tacked in, then stitched a bit then sealed and painted?
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Last Edit: Sept 2, 2020 20:46:18 GMT by cjhillman
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Cheers again for all the info everyone. I'm going through it all bit by bit and trying to figure out how I can get my hands on a welder/when is the best time. I didn't think the welding I need to do would be easy anyway and figured that this probably isnt the right time. It is something I've always fancied doing and a few times thought I should get one and learn. These inner wings I'll get a quote. Also, I don't have access to a garage here but If I could drive whatever I wanted to weld to my folks house in Stoke, they have a garage with electricity. I was thinking maybe its something I could rope my Dad into learning as well... possibly. Hes into his old cars too. I had a look around at stuff such as seem sealer and looked up a few youtube videos to see some techniques. That sounds like a saving ! I did wonder how much electricity it would use. Thats wild how much the Mr2 sill cost. I guess it depends on the garage really. I know its a bit of a generic video but I was interested to see the different type of welds etc described here. Although, its a bit slick and I'm sure its not as easy as this guy makes out. Never seen the plug weld before. Also watched a few videos on seem sealer as I know thats used a lot. Got me thinking.. If you were to weld a pressed inner wing panel to a Car. Would you use this kind of weld to weld it to the bulkhead or the wheel arch? assuming the panel has a lip on it. Also intrigue as to how much welding goes into a panel such as this say, along the wheel arch and how much of it can be seems sealer. I assumed it would be welded all the way along but i'm getting the feeling it now might be tacked in, then stitched a bit then sealed and painted? To be honest I don't think you would even notice the amount of electricity you use, my welder has a 13A plug on it which means that its a maximum of 3kW (I'm not sure what the machine actually is without working it out, then I run it on a lowish setting as i'm only welding car body work).
If you assumed that the welder uses 1.5kW when in use (i.e. when welding not when switched on as the load when just on but not welding will be really low) and you pay say 20p per kw/h of electricity then you would pay 30p to weld for an hour solidly. An hour of solid welding would do an awful lot of work.
I don't know what the panel above is or how it fits to the car in question but generally panels have to be welded all the way around, for MOT purposes if its a patch (i.e. you weld a plate on a sill) it has to be seam welded in, if its a whole panel or a plate that goes up to a manufacturers seam you can weld it in the same way as it was originally i.e. spotwelded or plug welded if you don't have a spot welder.
Of course when welding in panels that arn't structural, for example repairing a wheel arch lip then you might want to spot/plug weld it on to reduce distortion. Generally with a panel like the one above you would probably want to plug weld it on but there may be places where the manufacturer seam welded it originally or where it might be desirable to do this.
If you get a quote to weld your car see how much that is in comparison to doing it yourself and buying the necessary equipment, then consider whether you will be able to do this to a standard you are happy with, of course if you weld it and it doesn't look great you can always grind it down and if necessary reweld it.
Just look at some of the threads on here of what people are doing, some of them have not done any major welding before and the results they are getting are great. It just depends on what you think you will be able to achieve.
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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At the factory panels are spot welded together so when replacing panels you can plug weld where the original spot welds would have been if you don't want to invest in a spot welder or access is difficult. If you are joining a panel where there wasnt originally a seam you have to weld the entire joint. Usually a butt weld and when using a mig you would weld then grind the exposed weld back flush so you cant see the join. Somtimes people will create seams where they wasnt originally a seam to make things easier (butt welding can be tricky and strength can be comprimised) that's usually fine if you can make it look decent but in some cases it's considered a bit of a bodge!
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rickygolf83
Scotland
Mk2 Golf 8v & 16v, VR6, Nova Antibes, Mk4 1.8t & mk4 Gt Tdi 130
Posts: 560
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Great advice and contributions from all of the above. Definitely something I need to learn once I have suitable facilities to practice, soon hopefully.....
Good luck cjhillman whatever route you go down with this one 👍
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60six
Posted a lot
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Posts: 1,658
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Sept 3, 2020 11:02:03 GMT
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Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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Danny
Part of things
On your screen
Posts: 837
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Sept 3, 2020 17:34:26 GMT
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Good video 👍
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Sept 3, 2020 17:44:45 GMT
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If you haven't already seen these videos I would recommend you check them out. www.youtube.com/c/GeorgeKarellas/videosGeorge pretty much starts from scratch and learns along the way - he uses basic tools, often outside on his drive. His work may not be up to everyone's standards but, he gets better along the way and it may give you the inspiration you are looking for. Pretty good production quality on his videos as well.
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Sept 3, 2020 21:47:53 GMT
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My plugs all have a copper rivet in instead of a fuse though. Please tell me you’re joking.... 😮
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