Car wont start after repacling dizzy (fixed!)

[cjhillman]

So I just thought i'd quickly swap over the Dizzy Cap & Rotor Arm.

- Took all the leads off one by one and put them on the new cap.
- New Rotor arm in... cranked and wouldnt fire...
- Put all the old stuff back and now it still wont fire!!!!!
- Checked the firing order and it all seems right.

Its also now turning over then stopping its self like It cant turn anymore (the battery isnt flat its turning helthy )

Any ideas? Its a 1.1 OVH Ford Escort on Points. Was fine before but I thought it was time for its new dizzy

[colnerov]

Hi, It sounds like it's too far advanced, try turning the dist in the same direction the rotor arm travels which will retard it. I seem to remember that there were two types of cap, which had the HT lead posts phased at 45 degrees to the other type. Perhaps some of the Ford fans can confirm or deny? It not the first time I've chased that particular goose back in the day.

Colin

[cjhillman]

Sept 21, 2020 16:29:20 GMT colnerov said:

Hi, It sounds like it's too far advanced, try turning the dist in the same direction the rotor arm travels which will retard it. I seem to remember that there were two types of cap, which had the HT lead posts phased at 45 degrees to the other type. Perhaps some of the Ford fans can confirm or deny? It not the first time I've chased that particular goose back in the day.

Colin

Thanks Colin will do this. Is that why it stops cranking/ locks up do you think?

[slater]

If you've not moved the dizzy I cant see why the advance would have changed.

Go back to basics. Are you getting a spark at all the plugs?

Its crying firing order to me. If its "kicking back" it's probably firing order. It could basically be igniting the fuel mix when the piston is coming back up the bore. That tends to create a pop in the exhaust and stall the engine. You also get a simlar effect of it spitting out the carb. Plus that sounds like the only thing you could have changed..

[cjhillman]

Had a good mess with it again. I tried turning the distributor anti clockwise a bit and it didnt really chance much. I even tried the other way and it didnt seem to do much.

I took off the HT leads, added the new cap and rotor. Also I took a couple of pics at TDC of the points / inside of the distributor so show how it looking.








It turns over but after a while just stops with the key turned which i don't understand. I'm wondering if its the points but... nothings happened!! Just took the cap and rotor arm off and put it back on

[slater]

Again seems strange if you've not changed the points for them to suddenly not work.. if you have the ignition on and flick the points open does it spark? Try cleanignthem and checking the point gap. Maybe you inadvertently dislodged somthing or kacked a bit of curse word in between them.. like I say basics first.

[cjhillman]

Sept 21, 2020 18:46:48 GMT cjhillman said:

Had a good mess with it again. I tried turning the distributor anti clockwise a bit and it didnt really chance much. I even tried the other way and it didnt seem to do much.

I took off the HT leads, added the new cap and rotor. Also I took a couple of pics at TDC of the points / inside of the distributor so show how it looking.








It turns over but after a while just stops with the key turned which i don't understand. I'm wondering if its the points but... nothings happened!! Just took the cap and rotor arm off and put it back on

The only other things I can think is I got the firing order the wrong way round. They seem exactly the same. It has to be something simple. I wonder If I could have them the wrong way round like, right order but the wrong way but, the rotor arm is going anti clockwise so I went 1-2-4-3 that way.

[asdajnr]

Sept 21, 2020 16:19:19 GMT cjhillman said:

- Took all the leads off one by one and put them on the new cap.

The firing order you are using, 1-2-4-3 ,is correct for the Ford ohv but it still smacks of timing being a large quantity of degrees out or wrong rotation of leads.


Have you checked that the location lug on the underside of the new cap is in the exact same location as the old one? There are several variants, one of which can put your firing order 90 degrees out.

If that's correct, No 1 cylinder spark plug out and that cylinder turned to tdc on compression stroke lining marks up on crank and start again - are you happy that coil and condenser are functioning properly?

[cjhillman]

Sept 21, 2020 19:34:02 GMT asdajnr said:

Sept 21, 2020 16:19:19 GMT cjhillman said:

- Took all the leads off one by one and put them on the new cap.

The firing order you are using, 1-2-4-3 ,is correct for the Ford ohv but it still smacks of timing being a large quantity of degrees out or wrong rotation of leads.


Have you checked that the location lug on the underside of the new cap is in the exact same location as the old one? There are several variants, one of which can put your firing order 90 degrees out.

If that's correct, No 1 cylinder spark plug out and that cylinder turned to tdc on compression stroke lining marks up on crank and start again - are you happy that coil and condenser are functioning properly?

Thanks for this. I keep thinking something must have to be out of rotation like the leads in the right order but a post on the distributor out? I don't think they are but maybe the Cap is the wrong way round. The last one Had a name on one side only and so when I put it back I put it in the same place. I'll re check all this.

I don't know re condenser and coil. It was driving and I do a lot of miles in it so I feel like it should just let go now. I did think of changing the condenser as I have another and I bought a set of points in case as it was last year when the garage serviced them.

[colnerov]

Hi, Unclip the cap and turn it over and compare it with the old one to make sure the cap location peg and the relative HT lead posts are in the same alignment with each other. There can be a 45 degree offset or phasing which can mean the rotor arm is between posts when the coil fires because the points open then.

Hope this makes sense.

Colin

[oldisbetter]

I always drop a spark plug on a lead and earth it to see if there is a spark, i solved a strange one recently on a points type dizzy, the points were closed on full lift of the lobes even though the owner swears he never tried to adjust them...

[cjhillman]

Sept 21, 2020 22:31:22 GMT colnerov said:

Hi, Unclip the cap and turn it over and compare it with the old one to make sure the cap location peg and the relative HT lead posts are in the same alignment with each other. There can be a 45 degree offset or phasing which can mean the rotor arm is between posts when the coil fires because the points open then.

Hope this makes sense.

Colin

Will do this ASAP this morning. I think his cap can only be 180 degrees out due to the clips that hold it down? Even still it could be that.
I’ll report back soon if nothing changes.

[duggers]

I think by 45degrees colnerov means that the locating lug which fits into the cutout (about 10 oclock position on your dizzy picture)may be in a slightly different position meaning the cap would locate correctly but put the contact posts in a different positiion.

[cjhillman]

Right I feel such an idiot ... I new it was something simple .

Checked the points (which did seem to have moved and were shut at TDC) . Sorted that by touching them haha.
Checked for spark , had spark
Said a prayer
And after it didn’t work I moved the HT leads along one post and it jumped into life .... feel such an idiot . I’m going to half blame my neighbour who yet again when I was in the middle of a job ran out to tell me something.
I didn’t think it was that as the manual said No 1 from the crank case side. For some reason my number 1 is one along behind the inlet .

I’m going to pick up some new plugs, plug number 2 seems to have lost its end to the HT lead... probably why it’s not as smooth as it should be. That or points, condenser but I’ll leave that for a bit ha!

[colnerov]

Hi, I'm glad you got it sorted.

Colin