Dez' 'fleet' thread. Another bl00dy transit!

[Dez]

Dec 2, 2020 14:49:16 GMT kevins said:

Al-ko do a low chassis which bolts onto factory modified fiat van front ends, a few people have also built motorhomes using the front of a fwd car, biggest issue is it gets you into IVA etc.

A mate had one of the al-ko chassis jobs. Bed was a really good design, had a 2t payload.
Problem was the base vans. (His was a Citroen I think?) like most modern commercials they were fragile. engines all bolloxed by 3 years old when they left supermarket cooler truck service. Most had had a a couple of gearboxes by then too. Ended up sacking it off for a ‘conventional’ sprinter because of it.

[vincento]

There used to be a company converting vw vans that would get the rear edge of the load space on the floor effectively so you could wheel a pallet on. They used an outboard axle design with hydraulics.

Razorback maybe ? Can’t remember now.

Not that Dez needs any advice when it comes to metal and vehicles but it obviously interests a few of us.

[vincento]

Sorry to clog your thread up with this but you’d be able to scrape anything off the floor using something similar.

[logicaluk]

There was a Saab 9000 based car transporter in Hull but I haven't seen it for a while.

[Dez]

Dec 2, 2020 10:41:38 GMT kevins said:

The reason for dualies was always tyre load capacity, some of the modern tyres can get you close to a 3000kg axle though so you don't really need dualies until you get to around 5 tons GVM now.

I had a vague look, trying to answer my own question, and couldn’t find anything higher than 118, which is 1320kg. Meaning an axle limit of 2640kg.
Rear axle kerb mass is going 500kg minimum even single wheel. Then a super light bed 300-350. Up to 100kg more for a more substantial fully covered one as they all seem to have. Means at best a 1700kg load, not even enough for a average saloon these days. And I’m sure it’s the first think VOSA would look at what they pull you, outside of tyre weight limit is a super easy fine for them.
And that’s before you get to what would happen if you actually did a tyre when fully laden...

[kevins]

Most of the modern Transits (and I believe sprinter) use 235 65 16's they are fairly widely available in 121 load rating (1450kg).

To change to these on yours would be quite mission though using later transit parts (new wheels, axle at the back and new hubs, knuckles, and brakes at the front.

Without TPMS I would as you say feel happier with a dualie in case of a puncture anyway.

[surprisingskoda]

Dec 2, 2020 10:41:38 GMT kevins said:

The reason for dualies was always tyre load capacity, some of the modern tyres can get you close to a 3000kg axle though so you don't really need dualies until you get to around 5 tons GVM now.

My reason for choosing a dual rear axle was and is always down to stability in the event of a blowout, or even a "normal" puncture. Same reason for always using a twin axle trailer.

[Dez]

The quoted rear axle mass is only 60kg different between the single wheel and twin wheel versions. Literally just the weight of two wheels and tyres.
That’s a lot of risk for very little weight saving, twin wheel all the way I think!

[thomfr]

I do not know the condition of roads in the UK currently (haven't been over for the last 3 years unfortunately) but the dualies give far better stability on roads with potholes or "trucklanes" in the road.
Thom

[kevins]

Assuming the tyres are decent quality and regularly checked (part of the requirement of an O licence for vehicles over 3.5T) it's very unlikely you will get an instantaneous blow out so with Tyre Pressure monitoring on the latest vehicles the risk is very low.

Even on a dualie, at GVM,you only have a short time until the other tyre overheats and starts to fail.

That said there it's only on vans that DRW becomes an issue (load space intrusion and extra vehicle width), on a CCAB DRW makes perfect sense.

(they are also marginally worse for CO2/ fuel economy but that's something only large fleets and manufacturers really worry about)

[Dez]

So in between other things I’ve been piecing together this ramp bed from all the bits I’d salvaged. This is all fairly basic work and easy to pick up and fit in here and there between other things.

I had salvaged 7x 2x2 crossmembers, and 2x 10’ lengths of 2x4. These were set up like so, crossmembers spaced at 2’ working from the back end forwards, with the 2x4s centred on the rails. The crossmembers were notched into the main rails to keep the top surface flat for when it comes to skin the bed.






This is the bed propped roughly where it will go. You may notice the very large gap to the cab, this is because I’d used up all my 2x4 so had to order more.


Which duly turned up after the weekend. There’s actually the steel there for 3 entirely unrelated jobs, only the 2x4 is for this.


I used the saw to chop it all to length.


So I cut 2x 5 foot lengths and marked up for the notches they need.




Talking ‘design notes’ a 15ft bed with 2ft spaced crossmembers gives a final spacing from the last crossmember to the cab back of a foot. This works out nicely for winch mounting which you’ll see later. I’m also using angle for the front edge of the bed, there’s no point using another box crossmember as it never sees any weight that close to the cab back, so a nice little weight saving. The ends of the 2x4s were notched to allow the angle to sit flush.




Ready to go.


These were then spliced onto the ends of the original 2x4s, using some hefty angle and some clamps to set the allignment.
I welded these extensions on at the front rather than the back, so the join wasnt at the stress point of where the overhang meets the chassis rail.




Here is the complete bed with the angle set at 7degs, between bed surface and chassis rail.


Here’s how the angle finishes the front edge.


And I’ve also made the frontmost legs to mount the end down. All the bottom tabs are just the old ones cleaned up, with 40x40 legs as the tabs are 40mm wide. Top end cut to 83degs to suit the bed angle.
The very front of the bed is about 10” higher than before, by the time you’re just past the axle it’s the same height, then the back where the beavertail ‘hump’ was is lower, then the tailboard should be the same height as before.



At the back the rails just rest on the end two tabs and are tacked on for the mo. There will be some bracing later just behind these that will sit on the end of the chassis rails, but bolted up property not bodge welded like before!


With these 4 points at each corner tied down I can start adding the other legs.

Here’s some overall views.




I’ve still got a crossmember to add, plus the other mounting legs, then the outside rails will be added in 2” angle, again another weight saving measure as box section is entirely unnecessary. This will support the outside edge and also be let-in flush so it caps the ends of the crossmembers and allows the sheeting to sit flat.
Then I can get onto the more interesting bits of making it look a bit cooler and sorting the fine details of its functionality like the light board and tie downs.

One thing to say is that this lot is shockingly light compared to the old setup. I’m actually a bit worried at this stage it’s going to sit too high compared to before!
There’s still a bit of weight to go on yet though so it should creep down a bit.

[kevins]

looking good, given all the weight is going to generally be at the front it might be a good idea to add a diagonal or cruciform on the front legs?

[Dez]

Dec 18, 2020 11:40:16 GMT kevins said:

looking good, given all the weight is going to generally be at the front it might be a good idea to add a diagonal or cruciform on the front legs?

Yeah that will all come later. I Want the actual platform made and the rest of the legs in before I get onto stuff like that.

[Dez]

Next step.
Side rails going on. 50x3 equal angle. Bought super cheap as it racking that comes out of containers. It’s got a few holes drilled down one side but they’ll be hidden once it’s done.


Bed is just wider than the outside of the tyres, but only just. It’s 6’9” wide which gives 23” wide treads.



Rear corners are done like this, as are all the other crossmembers.


Front corners are currently like this, as I will be radiusing them behind the cab so there ain’t a sharp corner.
Rear corners are deliberately not radiused because of how I plan to do the light bar and how the ramps hook on.


The side rails had to be joined as the angle comes in 8.5ish foot lengths. It was clamped up then welded up.


Bed now looks like this. Apart from some finish welding and tweaking a bit of distortion out of it in one place, that’s the basic frame together. There’s nothing really complicated about any of it, it’s just been donkey work to get the basics in place so far. You do have to think 3 steps ahead though so you don’t make yourself problems down the line.





And yes it’s still too high at the back! It’s not parked on level ground though which accentuates it.

I also added the final 2x2 crossmember which the winch will mount off the back of, between it and the angle at the front end.


To finish this stage I’ve the rest of the legs to add, some smaller intermediate outriggers to prevent the sheeting bending under a full load, and the rounded front corners to make.

The step after that will be some bracing for the legs and the rear overhang.

Then I can get on with the more interesting bits like the light board/ramp rack design, mounting the winch, and some storage for straps etc. I’ve also got to add some wheel arch bracketry, and then it’ll be about ready to go and be blasted and painted. By the time that’s done you won’t be able to tell it’s mostly recycled.

I dropped on on FB marketplace and got this lot in the next village along for a good price. Two full sheets, one about 3/4 sheet and some useful offcuts as well. So I’m ready to skin it as soon as it’s painted.

[thomfr]

Look great! Nice, keep it simple (and light) engineering.
I assume that you do not only blast and spray the bed but also give the chassis some rust prevention?
Thom

[Dez]

Dec 19, 2020 10:21:54 GMT thomfr said:

Look great! Nice, keep it simple (and light) engineering.
I assume that you do not only blast and spray the bed but also give the chassis some rust prevention?
Thom

Yes the chassis will get blasted on any scabby bits as well, and will get a couple repairs before the bed goes back on for the last time too. It’s actually fairly good for an ex-tipper chassis with just a couple of bubbly seams in the over axle area.

[Dez]

Well, if it ever stops pi$$ing it down, I might get back on with this now I’m back at work. In a brief break in the deluge, I did mock up for how 10ft ramps will fit and work.

Here it is sat on the back of the bed. The angle doesn’t currently match, but it’s not meant to. The idea is as you pull a car on and the weight sits on the ramps it all levels (or unlevels I guess) out and you get a straight run. Of course I won’t be able to fully test that til it’s all done, but by eye it looks about right.


My ramp storage looks like it’ll work out too.
Theres room for them to go here.
I was gonna buy some ally ones but they’re £300, and I calculated doing them all in this 80x40 thin wall I happen to have kicking round with no real use for, then skinning in leftover checker plate will only weigh about 15kg more and the only cost is labour, so I’m doing that.


There will be a couple of rudimentary sliders to feed them into and stop them bouncing round, and at the back the number plate section of the rear light bar will hinge to allow removal (and lock for security). All pretty simple stuff that will be neat and tidy.

[ossiecossie]

i like where you are going with this i have a mk6 i am converting to carry my track car

[Dez]

Slow progress, I blame the weather.

I did sell the old ramps (Ifor trailer ones) for a couple hundred quid and I got paid to deliver them as well, which was a pretty good deal.

Between slogging away on other projects I’ve got these front corners done. They need to be rounded for ‘elf an’ safely reasons (although if they corner hits you you’ve Proably already been decapitated by the mirror).
But if I get pulled I don’t want to give VOSA reasons to fine me. I could have just angle cut them, but this is me we’re talking about so I radiused them.
I’ll let the pictures do the talking.










Here you can see their purpose, they tuck that sharp sticky-outy corner away behind the cab.


I then did the other side as well and neglected to take any pics.

I’ve also ordered yet more steel to do the rear light bar and a few other bits as I changed my mind on how I was gunna do it. That gets delivered tomorrow and then I can get that bit done.

[mylittletony]

That's the kind of corner I'd keep walking into and bashing my hip - well worth the effort