Reshelled cars, what do you stand to lose?

[mr2fc]

Hi All,

Just recently, there has been two cars in the classifieds here with possible issues regarding reshells.

forum.retro-rides.org/thread/216576/outstanding-morris-cooper-recreation-16695

This has a newer shell (but could be a new heritage shell, which I believe would make it legal?) and you could argue 99% of minis have so much welding they're not really genuine anymore!

forum.retro-rides.org/thread/216778/1986-ford-fiesta-rs1800-abergavenny

This one has been reshelled, I'm awaiting a response from the owner to see what it says on the logbook, as I'd actually like to own this car (relive my late 20's!)

What would happen if I buy either of these (or one I didn't know had been reshelled) and it gets discovered? Does it simply get re-registered to a 1.1 Popular or whatever the shell was from? Or are there more serious implications?

I guess if it turned out the shell was stolen I'd lose the car completely?

I'm not implying any wrong-doings by the above sellers, but as my ongoing car purchase is still... ongoing? I'd like to know!!!

[dickie12]

legally it needs to be a a brand new shell if you use a second hand shell then would need to be on a q plate
that being said there loads of reshells out there with second hand shells not on q plates

[ChasR]

Dec 16, 2020 16:29:25 GMT dickie12 said:

legally it needs to be a a brand new shell if you use a second hand shell then would need to be on a q plate
that being said there loads of reshells out there with second hand shells not on q plates

I think that's down to them staying quiet and simply chucking the VIN onto another car .

Christ, I know of taxi driver who used to just put the plate onto a similar car, without even doing the VINs? How are the DVLA going to know unless someone tells them? He did this at least twice as far as I could tell.

Anyway.

If you get found out for having the shell as you say, it'll be Q plated as the identity won't be known. It also depends on if they will be able to tell and just how iffy the 're-identification looks. Bear in mind some shells have features on them unique to that car.

For example, it's very easy to tell if an Escort RS Turbo S1 has been reshelled from a non S1 Mk3 shell.

If there are features that you do know about which someone would spot, then it would be worth trying to track down the original V5.

The main reasons they're against it is identity. As you say, it could be stolen. The other is 'technically' fraud. A Dolly Sprint for example is worth much more than a 1500, but if your shell is shot, and you have a 1500 shell going spare...

[mr2fc]

When Q plates are mentioned, is that just form filling and a nominal fee? Or an IVA!? Or something in between...

[kevins]

For the fiesta it would I believe be perfectly legal if the original 1100 or whatever identity of the shell was retained, as the suspension would be the same bar tuning and the shell original, you'd just lose the points for the engine an possibly gearbox ( unless the original was a B5 as well)

Wheels, trim etc count for nothing.

[hairdoo]

On a mk2 fiesta I believe they have a bump in the rear panel to accommodate a 6 inch wide spare wheel. A pic of a mk1 supersport or xr2 will show this as on a mk2 xr2 its hidden by the rear bodykit apron. I think dean flowers mentions this and the fact sunroofs were optional delete

[mr2fc]

Dec 16, 2020 19:38:04 GMT kevins said:

For the fiesta it would I believe be perfectly legal if the original 1100 or whatever identity of the shell was retained, as the suspension would be the same bar tuning and the shell original, you'd just lose the points for the engine an possibly gearbox ( unless the original was a B5 as well)

Wheels, trim etc count for nothing.

That's why I asked, if you just bolt bits from a different model on you don't need to worry about points, just inform DVLA about engine capacity and block number and your insurance company about any changes.

I've been looking for an interesting daily, and had one of these when I was younger (much younger!) and I'm no collector, so I'd still say a fair price if it was a Popular with all the XR2 bits on, wouldn't worry about the "value" of it being an XR2 or not, it looks like a very fun way to relive my youth every time I go to work.

But my paranoia makes me worried about what would happen if an MOT tester notices, or I get stopped by a policeman who says "I used to have one of these..."

[mr2fc]

Dec 16, 2020 21:07:11 GMT hairdoo said:

On a mk2 fiesta I believe they have a bump in the rear panel to accommodate a 6 inch wide spare wheel. A pic of a mk1 supersport or xr2 will show this as on a mk2 xr2 its hidden by the rear bodykit apron. I think dean flowers mentions this and the fact sunroofs were optional delete

He was very honest to describe the car the way he has, too many people don't (see the mini link)

Edit: to be fair, the mini may be legit if it uses a Heritage shell. Shame KGF1 haven't replied, maybe they will?

[lord13]

to be fair, both cars are described comprehensively, albeit a little conservative on the legalities of re-shelling.
The mini on one hand is an excellent recreation, but that is what it is, a recreation, not an original. The fiesta is also a recreation, but without the proper engine, so is a modified car carrying an xr2 identity.
Both cars are immaculate, and attention to detail is fantastic in most cases, and would look great tooling around town. However the legal side of their identities are suspect and if I were you, and were going to spend that kind of money, I would look for something more 'original'. For that money you could buy something cheaper and loads more fun, yes mini's and hot little fiestas are great for smoking about in but they get tiresome after a while, especially minis, very tinny and claustrophobic. Of course that's only my opinion
It's a shame that these cars are not what they say they are, but you can also have those that are what they say they are but have had all the important stuff removed... for example, there's this HP Firenza for sale at an auction house, it's a genuine HPF, but all the interior has been removed in favour of a cage and bucket seats, the ultra rare dog leg zf has been binned for a later zf, and the wheels are gone. Thats 3 of the main things that make it a HPF, don't get me wrong its a great car, built to the highest standard but I'd want my HPF to actually still be a HPF. Anyone can build a droopsnoot race car out of any old firenza/magnum/viva E shell...why ruin a rare model?My point is...yes I do have one... if you have 10 - 15k knocking about to get yourself a nice classic/retro car, buy a genuine one, even a base model one, and build it to your spec your way, and register it properly. If you want a zetec powered mk2 fiesta, build one. If you want a genuine XR2 buy one.

I feel I ran out of steam somewhere along the line and lost the essence of what I was trying to say... but basically for 10-15 k you could get a nice clean base model fiesta and have enough left to build something cool ...probably maybe..i dunno, it's a ford, for that money I'd buy an Astra GTE and be done with it... loads more fun, loads more comfort... loads more cool

[LowStandards]

I wouldn't touch either

[hairdoo]

if a mk2 xr2 is your want, retromatt appears to be building a white e-reg one with low miles/clean shell provenance. if a zetec b road basher fiesta is your thing theres a mk3 hidden in between them.

[Adambt]

About 20 years ago a friend of mine had a very clean looking sapphire cosworth which had been re-shelled due to a crash at some point. I don't know all the details but when he sold it on the new owners took him to court accusing him of selling a stolen car to them. In the end he could prove the provenance of everything except the shell itself, so the shell was ordered to be crushed. He got his Cosworth back in bits minus a shell with a significant dent to his finances.

[dragon]

It sound like you're not sure on the vehicles so if you're questioning it someone else will be as well. Buy something that doesn't bring the points you mention into question. Better safe than sorry and a hard hit on the wallet.

[ChasR]

I think the Fiesta chap has mentioned it as it is the right thing to do, and also, anyone who does the simple checks will soon find out.

I almost bought an Escort RS Turbo which was carrying RS1600i shell. The car it turns out is well known for having a re-shell. When I questioned the owner about the VIN numbers of the car, he decided to say it had new floors.

From other people who saw the car, it clearly didn't. The best part is the owner even put a thread on about it years prior to selling it!

passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/291158-anybody-have-any-history-about-this-car.html

[hairdoo]

As a side note to consider, if you had invested serious cash in a valuable car and the worst happened and an insurance claim had to be made, would the insurers take a dim view to a car which appears to be not what it seems?