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So after a long affiliation with Volvo's I'm debating a change.
I've always wanted an XJ6 but always been put off by the horror stories frequent repairs.
Frequent as in consumables and the odd big repair I can deal with.
So, Volvo ownership has been fairly similar to be honest. At least once a month I'm hit with a bill or a big fail. Just put 12 months MOT on the V70 after spending nearly 700 quid on things for the ABS to now play up and rendering the car unusable... Again. I've done good miles in her but its becoming untrustworthy on long trips.
The lower mileage T5 has been temperamental and is currently off the road with a knackered steering rack and electrical issues too. I've driven it for around 2 months in 12 months of ownership.
The D5 was scrapped due to too many issues.
I don't abuse my cars and service them more than they need. They've all got FSH.
Each time a repair is needed I say to myself, its only a PCV kit for example, it'll be good for a year. Each time another repair comes up.
Honestly, my old pug 309s and 205s were more reliable!
Shall I jump off and try a Jag? I'm getting tired of unreliable Volvos!
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hopeso
Part of things
Posts: 340
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Can't get much worse if you buy wisely!
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variety is the spice of life.. or so they say ! don't be a one brand snob, theres lots of good retro motors out there.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Changing car brandChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Jan 10, 2021 12:13:42 GMT
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No, go for it.
FWIW, every car has issues IMHO. You'll have brand loyal folks like Merc, VAG, and J guys say they are trouble free, and bulletproof. However, occasionally they go wrong. The thing we don't get here IMHO is that the cars are now old, so things will go wrong, even if they are not common. 20 year old cars may be 'modern' to many here, but that age on a UK car with the climate we have really takes its toll; My 50 year old Merc had a cleaner undercarriage than my then 18 year old M3! The fact that it seems most mechanics seem to break things on the way as they repair stuff doesn't help either, and so the age process comes in.
What issues have I had on cars? Quite a few. Here are a few I can think of to make you feel better; I've the put the years in brackets to show how long I have owned them for.
Mondeos -'01 2.0 Ghia X LPG (2005-2009) ; In the family from 77k to 387k. In that time it had 2 'boxes due to the diff going, a set of dampers, an anti roll bar, a couple of suspension issues as well as a fuel pump. Clutches/tyres obviously being in that. -'03 2.0 Ghia X and an '07 Mondeo 1.8 LX (2008-2012, and 2013 to 2016) : These were similar. 2.0 went to 211k, and the 1.8 to 325k ; Both had valve seat recession occur, and dampers. Clutches too in both, albeit the clutch in the 1.8 went to 300k before the slave cylinder failed. -'04 V6 Auto Estate: Engine, Box, alot of the cooling system.
Porsches -'89 944 S2 (2009) : Shot liner in engine meant a new one was required ; it would be the third engine the car had seen. Then the reasons for the engine going were resolved after a deep dive ; New cooling system (rad & hoses went in), along with the reason why the cooling system probably became poor ; heater matrix was leaking with all of the fresh coolant in the car. -'91 944 Turbo 250 High Mileage (2013-2014): Almost nothing went wrong on this bar tyres really. It did have alot of work done prior to me getting it, including an engine rebuild, Coilovers, bushes, fuel lines, cooling system and bodywork like the sills and wings.
[VW] -'06 Passat 1.9 TDi S (2013) ; I had probably the buyers guide example. Steering lock issues, EPB caliper problems, door locking issues, various electrical gremlins, camshaft being worn down to the nub, and various bushes ; they were not tired, they were lethal ; The car had some horrible twitches when we got it.
So yes, do your research, know actually what you are in for and go for it.
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Last Edit: Jan 10, 2021 12:15:27 GMT by ChasR
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Jan 10, 2021 13:00:34 GMT
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Mid to late 90s stuff was the peak of reliability for most northern European makes. Downhill from there.....
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Jan 10, 2021 13:06:41 GMT
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Remember on forums, specifically one marque forums you will see a plethora of faults thrown about and common issues (often masquerading as serious problems without the rose tinted specs). VAG are the worst for it, many of the issues around the mk4 and mk5 golf platform would be deemed a serious problem elsewhere, the vag whores put them down to simple maintenance because they get all misty eyed if people dare to question their baby.
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Jan 10, 2021 14:05:30 GMT
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Plenty of serious design faults and maintenance hostility on offer in the VAG stables, getting much worse from the turn of the millennium onwards. This from someone who has run VAG product continuously since the early 90s and is now seriously considering going elsewhere.
I loved my B2 & B3 90's. I loved my Mk1, 2 & 3 Golf GTis, I still love my C4 A6 (best car ever!). I had respect for our Arosa, though it tried my patience at times. The current TT, B6 A4 and Octavia 2 are all causing unreasonable pain - the Octavia maybe has the excuse of extensive PO abuse, but the other two do not being low miles, full history cars. So much stupid stuff goes wrong with the A4 and it's so unpleasant, time consuming and sometimes expensive to fix. No wonder tidy looking examples are becoming common in scrapyards! I'm still on the fence about my latest D2 A8, but early indications are that probably I should have learnt my lesson from the last one!
I hear similar about Volvo from a mate but no personal experience.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Changing car brandChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Jan 10, 2021 14:42:50 GMT
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Mid to late 90s stuff was the peak of reliability for most northern European makes. Downhill from there..... Nick Agreed. Their problem now is age related issues. E39 BMWs are similar with E61s. E61 have more to go wrong, but the E39s have problems of their own. The more common ones now include -Serious rot problems ; it didn't seem to be too bad before ; jacking points and the ends of sills go badly on them -Random electrical faults, but I think this can affect any car of this age now, albeit most won't stop the car from running -Generally tired as they are now old -Displays ; I think any non-I Drive BMW will have lost a pixel or 200 off their displays ; it seems most do now. -Other problems ; brake lines, as they were steel, and are now old and corroding etc. The E61s have their issues yes, but it does seem cheaper fixes come about. The £1k iDrive bill that people love to mention is now around £250 to repair.
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Jan 10, 2021 19:53:26 GMT
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Thanks for all the replies guys! I wouldn't say its brand snobbery I just always seem to end up hoarding the same marques.
Peugeot: 205 and a 309. Sold them a few years ago, now I'm looking at the prices rise.. ahh.
VW: My first legal car was a mk2 breadvan, learnt a lot and it never let me down. Had a couple more and a coupe too. I was hooked on the dub scene. Then I bought an 05 caddy and an 02 Skoda superb. Both absolute junk and the least reliable cars I've owned.
Mazda: mk1 limited edition mx5. Absolutely faultless, super clean and original. Sold it at a stupid price due to a job loss. Readvertised after some tarting up by the buyer at 4k! Oops.
Volvos: 340 gle limited edition. Still own it but hasn't turned a wheel for 7 years. Bought the V70 a couple of years ago for winter and then a C70 T5. The v50 D5 didn't stay long.
I love J and older German stuff but despise rust. One good point for the volvos is that (bar the modern V50) they haven't got any rot.
I'm looking around at the x300 straight six jags atm, very tempted.
Also guilty pleasure cars: K11 micra and Toyota Starlet.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:51:38 GMT
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Shall I jump off and try a Jag? I'm getting tired of unreliable Volvos! At least I’m not the only one who’s had issues with Volvos I’d say yep go for it - all car makes have issues of some kind.
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Go for it(and I've had plenty of Volvo,including my current daily).
Have reached the conclusion that if you read any forum or facebook group it is a miracle any model by any manufacturer makes it off the drive way without failing.
Not quite figured out how many F/B Owner groups in particular reflect so negatively towards their marque. Have been researching late model Ford Ranger...and it is awash with folk slating the reliability(EGR & headgaskets amongst the common gripes).
If you fancy a Jag, buy one, apply normal due diligence as per any vehicle and enjoy it.
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2014 - Audi A6 Avant 3.0Tdi Quattro 1958 - Chevrolet Apache Panel Truck 1959 - Plymouth Custom Suburban 1952 - Chevrolet 2dr Hardtop 1985 - Ford Econoline E350 Quadravan 2009 - Ovlov V70 2.5T 1970 - Cortina Mk2 Estate 2007 - Fiat Ducato LWB 120Multijet 2014 - Honda Civic 2.2 CTDi ES
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Jan 11, 2021 10:05:05 GMT
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Yeah it's a bit of an issue with single make forums. You get to see lots of the problems that do go wrong, but people don't tend to post about their cars running perfectly so you only get posts from people who are having problems. You also have to filter it through the lense of whether a given car tends to be owned by people who are maintenance-savvy or complete newbies to maintaining cars.
I've run an XJ40 as a daily for a year, and occasional car for another year and a half and that didn't need much at the time (one ABS sensor and the windscreen washer pump). However, 5 years on from that during the resto I'm uncovering a lot of age related issues. Rust along the bulkhead, sills, fuel cap and windscreen surround mainly. If I was looking for a keeper XJ40 without the will to do rust-work I'd be looking at a well-kept garaged car at the higher end of the price bracket. Mechanically they're pretty rock solid tbh, no glaring engineering faults.
I wouldn't necessarily recommend an early car (3.6l or 2.9l). The later cars came with improved electronics (I think the first gen cars had an issue with solder cracking in the fuse box, which is fixable but avoidable by getting a later car). Oh, and the door handles in the first gen cars have issues with snapping the handle as the pins get corroded, and it can be pricey to get good new ones. Later cars had beefier handles, but swapping them onto an earlier car involves swapping the whole door as the aperture they fit in is a different size. Also, I've recently snapped the door handle of my later car which shows they're not immune, but that is after nearly 30 years of life (and it's a rear passenger door that was used infrequently). I've taken them off, given them a squirt of WD and some wiggling followed by some grease and they're all very light and smooth now.
I haven't owned an X300, but from what I gather they're improved still. Even more robust electronics (although I'm not sure how), that are the same as a '94 end-model XJ40 (they rolled out the electronics a year early so if they didn't work it wouldn't tarnish the reputation of the new car). I think the bulkhead rust issue was worse, but you can still get the replacement panel which is nice (you can modify the later panel to fit an earlier car if necessary, but it needs a welder). Some of them will have been done already at this point.
However, it's worth saying that you're buying an older car, so often they will need a fair bit of maintenance catching up with. I expect that's why you're finding that your newer volvos are needing quite a lot of work to make good compared to your older (but maybe less old at the time) 205s and 309s. Buy one of those now and there's probably a fair bit that'll need doing too. There is something about added complexity in newer cars though (205s won't have issues with ABS!).
In all honesty, catching up with lots of things that need fixing to make a car realiable seems to be a reality of owning older cars. People don't tend to sell them when they've just made them rock solid reliable, they tend to sell them in the situation you're in! Just done a big piece of work, but can tell that there's more that needs doing to make them good.
Pick a car that you really want, find a good one, and then spend the money to keep it good (spurred on by the fact that it's a keeper). It's the only way to really have a rock solid reliable older car.
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Jan 11, 2021 15:03:21 GMT
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Go for it. Trust your guts. In the end you should be the one to be satisfied.
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Jan 11, 2021 17:06:57 GMT
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Firstly make sure it's got a service history (a proper one not just an oil change every year or so).
Avoid anything modern and diesel, (not necessarily unreliable but so complicated and everything costs a fortune to fix), avoid forced induction and avoid direct injection and you should have reliable car which uses reliable / proven technology and if it does go wrong is fairly easy to fix.
Jags also have a very good aftermarket support so there is the always option of second hand and remanufactured parts plus non franchised specialists.
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Jan 24, 2021 12:52:05 GMT
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I have a Volvo V70 estate petrol manual that I have owned for over 6 years and it has been superb, reliable and practical. Not low miles and not much history, but I keep the oil clean and try to treat it with a bit of respect. As for Jags I have owned several from a 3.8 S-type up to a 98 XK8, and they have been mostly good, but I would say the older Jaguars had less hi-tech stuff t cause big problems. The last generation of the 6 cyl XJ cars were reliable.V8s are lovely to drive but have more problems if you buy an unwise " bargain ".
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