mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,063 
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Oct 24, 2024 16:15:59 GMT
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Could you possibly make it easier for yourself with the frame less windows by using a MINI glass and regulator? (Not a clue how easy drop glass is to "trim" to size tho) That way, the regulator is already electric, and designed for glass adjustment and a glass without a frame  |
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Oct 24, 2024 16:44:17 GMT
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The height of the window, door to roof is about a foot and there is almost enough room within the door to allow it to retract to be almost flush with the top of the door. The problem is finding a suitable lifter. The one I'm playing with is from a 2006 Honda Civic Type R which is about two feet long and that will definitely not fit. I've been looking at the possibility of cutting it down but that isn't straightforward and I would like to find something suitable without modifying. This is always an advantage when anything goes wrong and you need to source a replacement. Standard is always good in my view. On most examples that I have seen,the track is vertical with a carriage that lifts the glass. Here is a picture of the one I have. For it to fit in the door the angle of the track would need to be no more than 30 degrees off vertical. Any more and it will come through the side of the door. The window glass comes outwards at something like 40 degrees from vertical. I'm not sure whether it might be possible to get it to work with the window at one angle and the lifter at another. I would appreciate any ideas and suggestions particularly if you can point to a more suitable mechanism. Sorry about the quality of the screenshot. I was too lazy to go back to the workshop to take a photo of the actual unit.  PS The second photo shows the angle of the B post and I hope clarifies what i trying to explain.  |
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,063
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Oct 24, 2024 17:47:14 GMT
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BMW Z3 mechanism?
They are quite small glass, have a quarter glass at the front of the door, and also frameless
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Oct 24, 2024 18:40:06 GMT
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BMW Z3 mechanism? They are quite small glass, have a quarter glass at the front of the door, and also frameless Great suggestion, thank you. The Z3 mechanism looks more suitable but it could be a bit on the large size. Without knowing the dimensions I'd have to buy one and see. You are quite right about needing a quarter light and that is already in the plans. |
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,361
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Oct 24, 2024 19:35:43 GMT
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An MX5 might also be a suitable donor…
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Oct 24, 2024 19:46:14 GMT
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I'm probably missing something but why is the angle of the glass an issue, Surely the track on the lifter just needs to be mounted at 30 degrees parallel to the glass runners?
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,617
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Oct 24, 2024 20:28:30 GMT
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Can't remember models but I think many manufacturers also use cable mechanisms with two track runners to control longer (frt-rear) glass so it cannot tilt within runners, which may be better suited to framless applications. Peugeot?
Subaru would be another obvious user of smaller frameless door windows & more commonly available than most.
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Last Edit: Oct 24, 2024 20:46:50 GMT by 79cord
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I'm probably missing something but why is the angle of the glass an issue, Surely the track on the lifter just needs to be mounted at 30 degrees parallel to the glass runners? Absolutely right but the problem I have with the Civic mechanism is that the tract is too long to allow the optimum angle and I would prefer not to modify it. Putting it at 30 degree angle brings it out through the side of the door. |
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An MX5 might also be a suitable donor… Thanks Glen but looking at it I think it would give the same problem as the Civic one that i have. Too long to allow the correct angle |
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I'll try to make a short video to illustrate what I have struggled to explain.
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I've just had another thought I would like to run by you. Rather than an electrical lifter for the window, I'm thinking manual vertical slider operated by hand from a peg in the door card with some sort of clamping arrangement to hold it in the desired position. This has several advantages, the main on being that it would allow the window to be fully retracted into the door, it saves money on two electric lifters and there is also a weight saving. Against, a bit crude maybe but it is simple and being simple myself, I do like simplicity Any comments? |
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,239
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Oct 25, 2024 10:38:43 GMT
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What about a strap lift ? As in old railway carriage windows.
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Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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Oct 25, 2024 11:30:06 GMT
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What about a strap lift ? As in old railway carriage windows. I'm liking manual operation more and more and showing my age I can clearly remember the straps to open railway carriage windows. The operation and locking in place needs to be thought out and definitely needs further consideration. I roughed out a ply template for the window mainly to see how much quarter light is needed and the answer is not very much and could well take the form of a plate rather than glass, much the same as on many modern cars where it is a mirror mounting. You'll notice from the photo that an angled channel needs putting into the rear of the door to accommodate the window because of the gap between the door and the B post. Probably the next step is to trial fit the window channel but Woolies are currently out of stock until November so there may be a bit of a wait before we can progress. So, in the meantime, I'm going to build up the passenger door which is just a repetition of what has gone before so I won't bore you with it. I'm favouring Lexan rather than glass for the side windows because of the weight saving and ease of shaping.  |
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,239
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Oct 25, 2024 13:00:17 GMT
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I'm liking manual operation more and more and showing my age I can clearly remember the straps to open railway carriage windows. The operation and locking in place needs to be thought out and definitely needs further consideration. We must be a similar age  I also remember steam loco's being in service and riding on trams and trolley buses in Glasgow. In 1965 while on a school trip to London we got shown round a Class 55 Deltic (which were relatively new at the time) at Kings Cross station.  |
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Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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Oct 25, 2024 16:08:39 GMT
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Ah, the Deltics, what a wonderful sound they made when they were on song. We lived close to the east coast main line and they were hitting big numbers on that section of track.
I was 23 in ‘65 so I was able to really enjoy the truly swinging 60s when everything was fun.
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What about a strap lift ? As in old railway carriage windows. This has to be the answer and I’m indebted to you for coming up with the idea, an absolute stinker, so simple and effective. My friend Trev who does a lot of crash repairs on classic racing cars told me that many of the cars he works on especially E types use the same arrangement. Just like on the railway carriages the leather strap is pulled up or lowered and secured in the desired position by a hole in the strap pushed onto a button on the door. This is another good example of the help and support I receive from our group, thank you so much. |
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I've seen it on racing Porsche 356's as well.
Its nice simple and light.
I think its a great solution.
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I've seen it on racing Porsche 356's as well. Its nice simple and light. I think it’s a great solution. Yes it is and all thanks to Jimi |
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The strap idea is good and definitely has a place - on race cars... but don't forget that when closed you will have a length of leather/ seat belt / whatever flopping around the door panel.
My thoughts, is that the 'look' you are going for ? There is a danger that folk(and you) will look at it and wonder if you got fedup and rushed to finish a very sytlish car.
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