1959 Commer Superpoise MkIV Tipper

[RootesRescue]

Good Evening all,

Ive been a long term loiterer of this forum, but only recently (the last year or so) have I started reading into the threads a lot more than I had in the past. Specifically the build threads. And I now feel like I may aswell start a little thread of my own ramblings. Some of you on here may have already seen my Instagram page I run, "rootesrecue" which is basically just a blog I do for fun of the bits and pieces Ive been up to recently, cars Ive had in the past etc. But with this thread I felt I would be able to give a bit more detail. Ill give a bit of a backstory into how Ive ended up where I am now, but if anyone finds it boring or tedious, please let me know!

So, my venture into Rootes Group ownership this time around begun in March '21 when I went to look at a 1956 Humber Hawk MKVI. I did end up purchasing the Hawk, and still have it now, but it was a 1959 MK4 Commer Superpoise Tipper that caught my eye moreso. Below shows it as found;



Ive always had a whimsical lust for a classic lorry, but with a young family the "playing money" to go out and purchase one hadnt really been available. So I wasnt entirely sure if I would have any luck with this one, despite showing an interest. I left it and concentrated on the Humber. A bit of time had passed from collecting the Humber, and Id began thinking about it more and more so I thought Id go an have a chat. Whats the worse that could happen?!
Well it turns out the chap had an even earlier Superpoise aswell, and long story short I was presented with an offer. Repair the cab for his Superpoise in return for a deal on the Tipper.




I gave this a great deal of thought, went away, stewed on it, came back and looked again, before finally agreeing too it. Unfortunately I don't have any more pictures to do justice to how bad the cab really was. Every panel was completely shot, the steps were non existent, the pillars were begining to rot through. This was just what was visible on the surface. I collected it, got it back home and began looking into it without the rose tinted glasses on that I had on first time around. I dug a little deeper prodding many areas with many screwdrivers. This was early July '21 so after spending the next month or so having a good look at it, trying to unseize bolts and remove panels I began looking at where to start on the repairs. I was very close to throwing in the towel and admitting that I had very possibly bitten off more than I could chew!

I began trawling through various forums, eBay and the like looking for panels in better condition. But this drew me a blank on every avenue I explored. The rarity of these trucks seemed to mean I couldnt find anyone with parts. The only place that seemed to keep cropping up was the infamous Rush Green Motors. I rung up and arranged a visit after speaking to the owner and set of full of optimism. I had a good day walking around the place, coming across a Commer Q4 bikini unit, and then after being given directions in riddle form by the owner, a complete, mint superpoise 6 wheeler hidden in a curtainsider trailer.






These are the two from Rush Green when I visited mid August '21. Slightly off topic, but the wealth of commercials there was very impressive. But I was lead to believe it was a shadow of its former self, and seemed to be shrinking further under pressures from the Environent Agency.

I drew another blank with Rush Green as I couldnt seem to get any sensible response regarding even a ballpark figure for either of the two trucks. Originally I asked for just certain panels, but was told it was an "all or nothing" situation. But with no price mentioned I couldnt really come up with any plan. So again, I left feeling disappointed and slightly deflated at the prospect I was facing.

Another couple of months passed befored a chat with a friend led me to post an advert on "Milweb" a military forum. As the Commer Q4 is practically identical body wise to a Superpoise this seemed like the last chance saloon for me. I had also resided myself to the fact that I may have to buy a complete lorry too rather than just the panels I required.

Mid December '21 I had a response out of the blue. I set aside another weekend for travelling and set off from North Kent towards the Welsh border. On arrival I came across a most welcoming gentleman and a lovely example of a Q4. A deal was struck for the whole thing, amd collection was arranged for the new year (Jan '22) Despite being no further advanced in my commitment to this project I felt like I had hit a big milestone already despite the fact I'd just bought a lorry the other side of the country! But the amountnpf time and effort this would save me woild surely be worth it? I was also hopeful I could break what remained of the truck to cover some of the outlay costs.

[teaboy]

Very interesting story, looking forward to see how it develops.

[RootesRescue]

January '22 we set off bright and breezy to collect the Q4. 5 or so hours later we arrived, and was met with a very swift and effective bit of loading assistance, got strapped up and made our way back across the country.









The Daf used to collect the Q4 doesnt belong to us, but fortunately I have gained a few very good friends over the years. The guy who owns the lorry is the same chap who owns the yard my Dad and I rent a bit of space off over the last decade or so. He is without doubt one of the nicest and most helpful people I have had the pleasure of meeting. He has always helped me whenever I asked, and would always let us borrow the lorry when needed. I do my best to return favours as often as I can, Dad does the same. But again, without him I simply wouldnt have the capabilities to do what I do. My Dad is also obviously another massive help, despite him often casting a very dubious eye over many of my plans, he will always voice any small concerns he has, but ultimately always puts himself out to help me as much as he can. Reflecting on where I have got to with this project just makes me appreciate who I have around me maybe more than I realised.

I have digressed again, once back we set about removing the cab as quickly as possible before dismantling and shifting as much remains as I possibly could. I should add that the Q4 didnt come with an ID when I bought it, I got quite a bit of grief from some people on Facebook, asking why I was breaking it up, what a waste it was etc. But with the lack of ID, and the later discovery of how truly rotten the entire chassis was, it would have been a simply herculean project, if possible at all.





Dad controlling the lift while I took a quick snap 🤭


Over the next few months I set about shifting as much as I could. I was pretty fortunate and got back maybe 70% of my initial outlay. With that out the way the cab was dropped to my garage at home and work began towards the end of January '22.
















Heres a few more pictures of my Tipper back in its new resting place when we collected it in August '21, with the original cab taking temporary residence in the back!

[daddyshortlegs]

Excellent, lets also have a thread about the Humber Hawk. I always fancied a Sunbeam Talbot 90.

[RootesRescue]

It had just come to my attention that I have mentioned the Hawk but not included any more info or photos of it. There isnt much to report on the Hawk as yet, my priority has been getting the cab repaired and that scenario settled before I get involved too heavily with any of my own projects.

But, as requested;








All I have done so far is give the outside a good clean, and also chucked a bit of fuel and a good battery on it to see if it show any sign of life. To our great suprise the ignition flicked on, illuminating the dash, a few cranks and away it went! So that was a very positive bit of news. As said, it currently sits mothballed. It does need a fair bit of work, but mainly recommision more than welding. So hopefully its not too bad!

[rob]

I've got fond memories of spending hours wandering round Rush Green in the early naughties. Me and a friend were converting an old Merc van to a camper and we had it stored at his parents near Luton. I remember it being vast and having every era of lorry/van you could imagine right back to pre-war stuff with trees growing through it. Like you I don't think we managed to buy anything though, the owner didn't seem to want to sell parts and it felt like you where annoying him by asking for prices. I'd love to go back and have a wander round again.

Looking forward to the updates!

[RootesRescue]

Ill keep trying to update sporadically to catch up too where I am now,

Work began pretty quickly on repairing all the unboltables. Luckily I have an understanding and helpful boss who lets me take things to work to do on breaks/spare time etc, so this helped me keep the ball rolling while not drowning myself with the amount of work at the same time if that makes sense?











The wings were one of the few panels that had to be modified back to Superpoise fitment from Q4. As you can see the added flare with takes the much larger 4x4 wheels was removed. This was pretty simple, just needing the spot welds drilled out, then a bit of making good and a tickle over with a fine grit sanding pad. As the owner is currentlt unsure on his final colour for the time being it was agreed I will just return everything sprayed over in primer. Purely for protection purposes. But before that, after finishing any repairs I have been coating the panels with rust converter as an added layer (and the fact work has it by the tinful!)
















It was a similar story with the doors too.
As Ive said, the work I'm showing so far is in restrospect throughout this year, when I get to 'present day' repairs I'll make that apparent in my annotations.

[RootesRescue]

Ill jump forward a couple of months now to May "22 and work resumed again after the birth of my 3rd child (2nd boy!) In February. My first son (8 years old) was interested in what was going on with the random old vehicles I frequent our lives with at first, but that interest seemingly has begun dwindling, with football taking over as his passion. Hopefully I can win him back round as he gets a bit older. If not, all hopes rest on the newborn to be Dad's tool passer when he gets older!

Another favour was called in from the workshop next door, and within an hour or two I had both inner wings and the grille back freshly shot blasted. I should explain, I work on "site" generally being based at a paper mill. The company I work for has a workshop in the paper mill. And I have access to a selection of metalworking equipment in the engineering department. We only have the bare bones on site. Anything heavier or over certain sizes I put in requests with the foreman to get it done in our workshop off site. They have all the equipment needed to do any job Ill ever need so its a nice situation to be in. The workshop next door is a shotblasting and powder coaters. I get on well with one of the guys, so thats where that connection comes from. Perhaps that whole paragraph is complete twaddle no-one wants to read, but I felt a bit of a description was needed!

So, here are the articles ;








There wasnt a great deal wrong with the three of these, just a couple of patches on the bottom. Same again when they were finished, rust convert and tucked up in storage ready to go.















The steps were fairly involved and took me a fair bit of time getting them both back to a good condition. But the ball kept rolling as I moved towards the end of spring.
















One job on the cab I was dreading was the porthole. The porthole was quite clearly a Q4 feature, most certain not ideal for use on a 'civilian' truck. I b*stardized a large section of the roof off the original cab, as this gave me all the curves in all the right places...it was then a case of taking the plunge and making the cut. There was a fair bit of marking, re marking, standing back, cursing, trying again, looking again, before the actual cut, but thats what this is all about isnt it?! I then set about clamping and tacking all the way round very slowly. Welding it was even slower, I done it over a series of evenings, popping out for half an hour here and there to put a few more small stitches on before leaving it again. This may seem long winded, but I didnt want to get carried away and ripple it. There are a few original "feature dents" but when bodywork is done a small tickle of filler will lose them.

[RootesRescue]

Moving into July '22 I started making a bit more progress on the cab repairs at home. With the baby settling into a bit of a better routine a bit of garage time didnt leave me feeling quite so guilt ridden. "Happy wife happy life"...
My general method was have a measure up, cut/fold/shape as much as I possibly could at work, thus minimizing noise at home and maximising efficiency of my garage time!
















The lower cab repairs were my starting point, which all proved to be fairly straight forward. I then had a look at some small patches either side of the lower front sections of the cab. Which did extend to a fairly annoying curved section on the outside of the footwell.













I'm trying not to overload too much with what could become repetitive info and photos. Hopefully what I'm showing does give some insight into the amount of work thats gone into the whole thing.









A little roll out of the garage for a sweep up gave it a chance to soak up a few rays in the summer sun. And a few questions from the neighbours too 🤭

[RootesRescue]

Ill hash through some more of the repairs and then I can give you a bit more info on some of my other plans...the windscreen/scuttle repairs were another area I wasnt looking forward too much. It was again a slow process to try and stop the distortion as much as I could. I clamped a few bits and pieces along to help keep the gutter straight, and any small movements were knocked gently back into line with a small persuasion stick.














Due to the porthole in the roof and the rather lacklustre attempts over the years to keep it dry, the internal metalwork of the cab has also suffered fairly heavily. The structural braces run along just below the quarter windows, spanning one side to the other and curving round to tuck in behind the B post. These took the brunt of the water damage along with the seat base. (Which I've yet to tackle). Again this was a nice little repair to carry out and another tick of the list. This was towards the end of September '22 and into October. I began giving the cab a real big push as Id set myself a slightly optimistic target of having all the repairs complete by the end of the year. As I was working through the jobs I started trying to clue up areas together, and I have since put it all into one similar coat of primer for the time being. But it does also give me a better sense of where I am, as everything with a coat of primer over it doesnt need to be touched again (🤞🤞🤞)

[RootesRescue]

Moving on to November things had indeed begun picking up some traction. The majority of the unboltables had been taken to work and been repaired, the cab works had been gradually progressing well too. The front crossmember was next to be tackled, this is the section the inner wings bolt through and is quite clearly a water trap. Luckily its double skinned, so I was able to chop the outer skin out, drop some fresh plate in, seam weld and flush it back all fairly easily. I also had the two step brackets to sort, one was a repair whilst the opposing side was as good as a complete remake. Any slight deviations on angles etc will have to be picked up on fit-up.











We can then jump pretty much up to date, as Friday just gone see me complete the final unboltable! Which is a massive personal landmark for me in this project. As I have said (I'm trying not to be too repetitive) Ive given a very swift summary to catch anyone interested up to speed, the amount of work I commited too when I took this on did become very overwhelming at times, none moreso than when I was sat beside my Dad, driving to the Wales border, with a pocket full of cash to collect the Q4 right at the start of all this. But despite it being very laborious and at times tedious I am pretty happy with what it looks like now. All I have left to do on the cab is a couple of inner sill sections and the seat base area and Ill be pretty much there on repairs.

The bonnet was the final panel, and a little bit like the wings this was more a conversion than repair. The bonnet had two mesh vents cut into the front of it, which is very much a Q4 feature. I assume its to allow more airflow through to the engine as a military version was probably being worked a bit harder than a civi variant. I hacked the nose cone off the original cabs bonnet to allow me to form a couple of templates, then set about cutting them in and welding them. Overall I'm not entirely happy with the outcome as I think a couple of areas maybe wernt shaped enough, as when I welded them there seems to have been a bit of surface tension which has drawn them back out of shape a bit. Its a learning curve, but just unfortunate. Its also nothing that cant be cured when the bodywork is done.

[grizz]

That is a massive undertaking, and you seem to be,chomping it up in big chunks.

Well done.

[RootesRescue]

Thanks, from one medway man to another! Its been a long year!

[landieles]

Loving the truck, looking forward to further updates.

[Alpina99]

Just caught up on this thread today,
I have to say, brilliant !!
The standard of your work / welding / fabrication is very high,
Really enjoyed reading and please keep updating with such detail, I (personally) am really enjoying it,
Bookmarked,
Nigel

[RootesRescue]

Thanks for your comments chaps, appreciate it.

Now that I'm up to speed with the Commer cab repairs ill show another of the motors I have sat waiting in the wings. I don't imagine ill have much to report on cab works between now and the new year as it is typically a busy time for me at work as much as it is at home. So, anyway, its a mid 50's (possibly 1956, I cant remember exactly off the top of my head) Hillman Minx Californian.

Very much a project car this one! Its a classic case of being in the right place at the right time, or wrong place maybe?! I got this back in April after making a very generous deal with a guy who was using it for parts for his converitble restoration up north. I bought it completely blind, only off a few pics, but the guy really was a nice chap, and seemed genuine enough. Hes actually been really helpful all the way through the process, even down to arranging delivery for me. I paid £300 for the car, but it does have quite a bit missing, and currently no V5. I need to apply for thay through the owners club apparently. He has given me all the info on how to do it. But for the price agreed it seemed too rare of a car to turn down. So here it is;





The two pictures above are some of the ones I got sent when I originally got talking to the chap



This pic is after it was delivered into the garage






And these two I found when I was doing a bit of research across instagram, showing the car at a restoration show up north again.

The loose plans at the minute are to get the v5 sorted first! But I would like it to be a bit of a sleeper project really, with something like a 1600 Zetec SE in it. These are only initial ideas, no action has been taken on these yet, so we will jist see what happens once the cab is out the way.

[ballbagbagins]

Enjoying this thread.

[RootesRescue]

Evening all, I hope everyone reading has had an enjoyable christmas!

Despite my reservations in the last update I did actually manage to get a couple of nights in the garage in the run up to christmas. Ive popped it over onto its side to give me much better access to the inner sill repairs. Its making the seat base repairs easier too, and generally allows me to give it all a once over, a tidy up, and then a coat of primer. I had some folded sections done at the workshop as the folder on site isnt big enough for what I wanted. These have made life easier and made the decision for me to replace the whole length rather than patch it. It may seem more work, but Ive come this far so I didnt feel a little corner cut like this was necessary really at this stage.












My target of the new year completion date seems to have drifted a bit further away again, but things remain positive so hopefully the finish line isnt miles away. Hopefully I can get a day or two over the next week, inbetween entertaining the family!

[RootesRescue]

So as the Year ends I have again managed to slip outside and push things forward a bit more. Yesterday afternoon by the good graces of my wife I had a solid 5 hours out in the garage on the Commer. Fortunately I (Dad) had managed to get another gas bottle sorted as I ran out on my last update after half welding in the inner sill. We use a local guy who delivers to the door so its a fairly convenient service really. I only use CO2 too on my set at home. I know a few people don't like using it, but I personally have always found it more than good enough for what I do. And at a fraction of the cost.

I also had a bit of a liquid companion to help me through my afternoons work, which comes highly recommended too I might add;



Now then, for the more serious business. I managed to get the whole inner sill repair fully welded and ground back as well as a couple of other minor areas tidied up. I have only taken the visible side of the weld flush, and simply tickled over the top of the underside just to take a few lumps and bumps off more than anything. But this all came out pretty well.







As I do, I have cleaned all the surrounding areas after these repairs were finished in the hope I will then be able to get it converted and primed in the coming days, thus leaving another small are of the project ticked off! But before I can paint I had to address the seat base. Originally I had a profile folded about 1400mm long, and the plan was to simply cut out and slot that in. But due the shape of the inner sills, ( they are a V shape, tapering in from the back of the cab towards the front) it became apparent this would not be achievable. The space isnt available for me to manipulate the section in to the slot so I made the decision to halve it and do it in two. All Ill do is weld and flush them back together through the centre when I install the other side. So its not a massive issue or delay really.

The inside rear of the cab has a section that runs side to side, before dropping down into a L shape shelf that the seat base then sits onto, while becoming incorporated into the frame at the front. The L shape section had to be repaired first as that has pretty much vanished one side to the other. Once done I then had something to weld the seat base too. I cut it in on the front, and fully welded it. But on the back it was originally spot welded. So all I did was mark out every 50mm from the corner and drill a 6mm hole through the seat base and plug weld it to the L shape section. It creates a terrible potential for a water trap again as this is obviously what has caused the issue in the first place. But luckily this time there isnt going to be a stinking great hole in the roof! 



The children have happily (unwillingly) donated me an old swimming float too as you can see above, this has become a lovely kneeling pad! Anything to keep me off the cold concrete!

So although my target of having all the welding repairs complete by the end of the year has been missed, I still don't find myself too far away, and am very happy with what Ive managed to achieve through the year. Its been a pretty good year for me all things considered, and I hope it has to all of you reading,

Ill sign off this post by wishing you all a Happy New Year, and look forward to what next year brings.

All the best!

[Alpina99]

Happy New Year to you too,
Excellent work as usual, looking forward to seeing future updates,
Nigel