What is this Engine?

[tim23]

Hi Good People, I hope someone can help. I have found this engine in my friend's barn in France. It was there when he bought the house almost 30 years ago. I've posted photos on some local groups, as well as doing some on line searching, but with no clear results.Because of where it is I suspect it's almost certainly French.  A few people have suggested "Simca", a make I'm not that familiar with. The lump appears to be transversely mounted, (FWD or Rear engined??). It looks to have an alloy head and sump and has a tin rocker cover, but it's unusual feature is that it has a pair of side draught Weber carburettors. Everything is extremely dirty and I can't find any identifying marks anywhere. I've searched Peugeot, Citroen and Renault possibilities, but any possibilities all seem to have downdraught Webers.
I would be most grateful for any info or even guesses. For some reason my photos won't upload. i get a message saying An error required! So I'll try posting this thread then replying with a photo!.

[tim23]

After posting, I've discovered that the photos have actually uploaded, you need to scroll past all the "error" messages. Sorry about the screw-up! Tim.

[Rich]

Aug 21, 2023 19:01:28 GMT tim23 said:

After posting, I've discovered that the photos have actually uploaded, you need to scroll past all the "error" messages. Sorry about the screw-up! Tim.

I’ve mended it but you can go back and edit your posts

[Darkspeed]

Could be from a Baggy.... - Matra Bagheera


Grab from the web

[vitesseefi]

Looks like a good shout!

[misterm]

They are downdraught carbs, it just looks odd because of the angle the engine lays over at. IIRC, Simca did a hot version of the 1100 hatch called the 1204 and that had twin downdraughts.

[scmick]

The engine is SIMCA. The twin DCNF Webers were fitted to a 1204cc version in the short lived (1970 to '71) hot hatch version of the SIMCA 1100. Later a 1294cc version was used in earlier MATRA SIMCA Bagheeras and SIMCA's own 1100Ti (a model never sold new here in the UK). Later MATRA Bagheeras used a 1442cc longer stroke version of the twin DCNF engine as did SIMCA Spain versions of the SIMCA 1100Ti. We've made one using a SIMCA 1100 fitted with an engine from a scrapped Bagheera... Also some early Chrysler/SIMCA Alpines (SIMCA 1307S on the Continent) used the twin carb engine. Photo of engine from a 1204 Special on our SIMCA Club UK stand at the NEC Restoration Show back in March.

[scmick]

The twin carb 1442 engine in my SIMCA 1100..

[tim23]

That had crossed my mind, but "my" engine doesn't have a neck for the oil filler.
The cap fits directly onto the rocker cover.

[tim23]

Thanks for all the replies. I think you've answered the basic question, now to identify which engine it is!
Where will i find identifying marks/numbers to try and get nearer the answer.
as noted the lump has an alloy head, alloy "flat bottom" sump, (with some cooling fins), Tin rocker cover with no neck for oil filler.
I'm sure we'll get there in the end!
Cheers, Tim.

[scmick]

tim23 The earlier SIMCA 1204s and MATRA Bagheeras had the longer oil filler neck. They did away with that mid '70s on with a cap directly on the rocker cover. My '77 1100 (dark blue car in photo) has an engine from a late Bagheera but I've fitted a rocker cover from an earlier engine making filling the oil easier on the slant mounted engine.
The 1204 and 1294 versions of the engine will have a long engine number in the block somewhere above the fuel pump. at the end of the number you'll see 7CV (old french HP rating) if it's a 1204 or 1294. If it's a 1442 it may have 8CV but numbering changed on later engines. The longer stroke 1442 engines have a taller block which can be identified where the bellhousing meets the block. The smaller cc engines have the face of the block only just above the top of the gearbox bellhousing whereas the 1442 block is a few cm higher. Have both types in the garage and will measure up the difference and post it later.

[tim23]

Thank scmick, I've now got the engine out of the barn and home in the daylight. It's definitely one of the smaller variants, but which?
Engine number is 132518 7cv. 
Now for some diesel down the bores to see if, after a good soak, it will turn!

[tim23]

Sorry, mis-typed, engine number 132519 7CV

[scmick]

I have a 1204 engine in the garage.  Will check the numbering on that , although I need to dig it out from under loads of other stuff. 

[tim23]

Cheers Mate, no rush!

[scmick]

Here's the number on my '71 1204cc engine  128422.6/7CV.   I think the 6/7 was because the 1204 was a sort of in between engine... the 6CV being the 1118cc engine (as fitted to most SIMCA 1100s) and the 7CV the 1294cc engine which went on to power MATRA Bagheeras from '78 and the SIMCA 1100Ti.   So if yours just has 7CV it is a 1294, by far the most widely used engine in the range.  The 1204 Special with the twin DCNF carbs was only made 1970 and '71 producing 75bhp.  Then SIMCA replaced it with the 1100 Special with 1294 cc giving more torque but on a single DCNF carb still producing 75bhp.  Then, in '73 SIMCA Brought out a 1294cc engine on twin DCNF Webers producing 82bhp for MATRA to use in their Bagheera. They used this engine in their own SIMCA 1100Ti soon after.  So your engine appears to be from either of these cars although I believe some early Chrysler Alpines (SIMCA 1307/8 on the Continent)  came with this twin carb engine.   It is likely to have come from a car built between '73 and '78.  All the above came with a 4 speed gearbox.

[tim23]

scmick, Thank you so much for all your time identifying my engine. I've had the bores soaking for awhile now, but it is still locked solid,(hardly surprising after sitting for about 30 years!).
I now need to find someone to whom it could be of some use!
Cheers,
Tim.

[scmick]

No problem. While the sump and outer fittings for the transverse engines like yours are different from the more upright versions in the rear engined in line SIMCAs Which also rotate in the opposite direction, The Head, block, crank, pistons and rods can be used in either version. The 1294cc 7CV engines are used in the SIMCA Rallye 1,2 and 3 which were and still are widely used in competition on mainland Europe, so there is demand for parts donor engines. There's a number of lively facebook groups dealing with the SIMCAs and MATRAs.... Simca Rallye and Bagheera Cafe to name just two. Photo shows the rear in line installation on the SIMCA Rallye 2 which uses a pair of 35PHH Sloex twin chokes in place of the twin Weber DCNFs on the MATRA Bagheera etc but still producing 82bhp from the 1294cc.