Boosted Pinto.

[ivanhoew]

Sept 18, 2023 19:21:07 GMT metalshapes said:

Feel free to post them on this tread, since I'm still in the info gathering/ planning stage, and not actually building yet.


BTW, that goes for anybody who has info and/or thoughts to add.

I really appreciate you guys thinking with me.

ok dokey , i dragged it out , and gave it a spritz , so i could see enough to remind me of what i did .


here is the whole box ..






ended up about this long ..







i made a shaft by connecting the jag 4 speed input shaft to the c4 input shaft like so ..






to make this i pressed the turned down end into the hole i made in the jag shaft , then mounted the assembly in 4 ally blocks all with tight id's suited to 4 points on the assembly , then while i rotated it my freind ian tigged it with stainless wire . he was sure it would snap , but it ran a best possible run of 12.3s in the 1/4 , on treaded F1 wets .



next bit was to drive the oil pump in the box , this bit ..













engaged with a three pronged addition to the clutch cover , so was turning all the time .it needed a big diameter release bearing on the clutch to clear it .



then it all sits in the box like so ..












i mounted an oil seal in it too ..










and here you can see how i machined down the stator mount..












i shortened the rear of the box ..













i lopped off the case end , made the new ally bits , cut the output shaft down , and bored the splined section and slid it down the cut off shaft , and that was tiged back and front ..










found a flange that was long enough for me to put two bearing in the end of the new case , to increase load capacity , then assembled the ally parts which were then welded on ..








then with a transpak in , and built to the specs in the back of vizards pinto book , it was off to the rd to see what could go wrong .



well first thing ws the change from 1st to 2nd was not , it was a instant total lock up . turns out his diescription of how to adjust the bands was a tough to tight , not giving the 1st gear time to get disengaged before 2nd came in , so i increased the play a bit , and it was fine .

the only real problem i ever had was , if i went more than about 40 miles it got hot and slipped , i did not have a big enough cooler on it ,i think it was a 9 row engine oil cooler , and it needed one ,even without a torque converter.


i think it knocked about 0.5s off my 1/4 mile time ,however , it did not pull as hard as it did on the manual .

gear shifts were absolutely immediate ,and pretty impressive , if you imagine cruising along at 50 mph , and having a 15 ton aggregate lorry hit the back of your car doing about 75 , that petty much sums it up .

,with the car wheelspinning and fishtailing violently, it would still achieve sub 5s 0-60 .


Car weighs 2300lbs.



regards
robert

[metalshapes]

Sept 19, 2023 12:10:05 GMT stealthstylz said:

I'll try and dig some photos out of a Pro Stock turbo Pinto head out we had at work when I get chance. Was a absolute work of art, made 500+hp with blow through Dellorto's.

I'd love to see it.

[metalshapes]

Sept 19, 2023 14:01:40 GMT ivanhoew said:

Sept 18, 2023 19:21:07 GMT metalshapes said:

Feel free to post them on this tread, since I'm still in the info gathering/ planning stage, and not actually building yet.


BTW, that goes for anybody who has info and/or thoughts to add.

I really appreciate you guys thinking with me.

ok dokey , i dragged it out , and gave it a spritz , so i could see enough to remind me of what i did .


here is the whole box ..






ended up about this long ..







i made a shaft by connecting the jag 4 speed input shaft to the c4 input shaft like so ..






to make this i pressed the turned down end into the hole i made in the jag shaft , then mounted the assembly in 4 ally blocks all with tight id's suited to 4 points on the assembly , then while i rotated it my freind ian tigged it with stainless wire . he was sure it would snap , but it ran a best possible run of 12.3s in the 1/4 , on treaded F1 wets .



next bit was to drive the oil pump in the box , this bit ..













engaged with a three pronged addition to the clutch cover , so was turning all the time .it needed a big diameter release bearing on the clutch to clear it .



then it all sits in the box like so ..












i mounted an oil seal in it too ..










and here you can see how i machined down the stator mount..












i shortened the rear of the box ..













i lopped off the case end , made the new ally bits , cut the output shaft down , and bored the splined section and slid it down the cut off shaft , and that was tiged back and front ..










found a flange that was long enough for me to put two bearing in the end of the new case , to increase load capacity , then assembled the ally parts which were then welded on ..








then with a transpak in , and built to the specs in the back of vizards pinto book , it was off to the rd to see what could go wrong .



well first thing ws the change from 1st to 2nd was not , it was a instant total lock up . turns out his diescription of how to adjust the bands was a tough to tight , not giving the 1st gear time to get disengaged before 2nd came in , so i increased the play a bit , and it was fine .

the only real problem i ever had was , if i went more than about 40 miles it got hot and slipped , i did not have a big enough cooler on it ,i think it was a 9 row engine oil cooler , and it needed one ,even without a torque converter.


i think it knocked about 0.5s off my 1/4 mile time ,however , it did not pull as hard as it did on the manual .

gear shifts were absolutely immediate ,and pretty impressive , if you imagine cruising along at 50 mph , and having a 15 ton aggregate lorry hit the back of your car doing about 75 , that petty much sums it up .

,with the car wheelspinning and fishtailing violently, it would still achieve sub 5s 0-60 .


Car weighs 2300lbs.



regards
robert

Wow!

That is cool.

Thanks for posting that.

[metalshapes]

Sept 19, 2023 12:16:47 GMT npp said:

when whas the pic taken?

The car is registered in Hagen, where I lived from 1980-88 and 1998-99, and the registration HA-TZ forms the German word for chase or hustling along. I've never seen the car on the road though.

According to this page,


www.arthurmallock.com/arthurs-cars


1969. ( or some time after).
It was a widened Mk8, it was a one off, and had its own type number ( Mk10).

[npp]

Sept 19, 2023 15:56:27 GMT metalshapes said:

Sept 19, 2023 12:16:47 GMT npp said:

when whas the pic taken?

The car is registered in Hagen, where I lived from 1980-88 and 1998-99, and the registration HA-TZ forms the German word for chase or hustling along. I've never seen the car on the road though.

According to this page,


www.arthurmallock.com/arthurs-cars


1969. ( or some time after).
It was a widened Mk8, it was a one off, and had its own type number ( Mk10).

thanks! No wonder I never came across it then. 

[dadstaxi]

Sept 19, 2023 14:01:40 GMT ivanhoew said:

Sept 18, 2023 19:21:07 GMT metalshapes said:

Feel free to post them on this tread, since I'm still in the info gathering/ planning stage, and not actually building yet.


BTW, that goes for anybody who has info and/or thoughts to add.

I really appreciate you guys thinking with me.

ok dokey , i dragged it out , and gave it a spritz , so i could see enough to remind me of what i did .


here is the whole box ..






ended up about this long ..









regards
robert


Amazing work. Thank you for posting.

[grizz]

Suddenly this thread is gearing up.

I like that, though most of it is over the top of my head.

[teaboy]

Sept 19, 2023 18:50:48 GMT grizz said:

Suddenly this thread is gearing up.

It's gearing up automatically.

Sept 19, 2023 18:50:48 GMT grizz said:

I like that, though most of it is over the top of my head.

Yeah, I've got no idea what is going on...

[metalshapes]

Sept 19, 2023 18:56:39 GMT teaboy said:

Sept 19, 2023 18:50:48 GMT grizz said:

Suddenly this thread is gearing up.

It's gearing up automatically.

Sept 19, 2023 18:50:48 GMT grizz said:

Yeah, its nice to see it mesh so well...

[horrido]

"I'm so epicyclic,
and I just can't hide it...."

[metalshapes]

I'm still learning more about racing Powerglides ( from books and talking to experts).

And I'm getting a clearer picture of what I will need.

So I took a little time to mock some stuff up
(the wrong kind of Pinto at this point, I need a Lima.
I'll see if I can pick a cheap one up somewhere)

But with the seat I'll use (out of a Formula Ford), and the diff I'll use (out of a racing Lotus Elan).

Just to see how much space I'll need, and what the range of engine setback will be (to end up with a good front to rear, and side to side weight distribution).

[redratbike]

going back to the CVT transmission there are quite a few race cars in the DAF museum in Eindhoven with CVT i remember seeing a few years back i always thought taking gearshifts out must make you focus on the driving more ?

Here’s another cvt race car
historicmotorsportcentral.com/2015/07/23/focus-the-daf-variomatic-huron-4a-cosworth/

williams even tested in formula one that led to ….

Most people in the know, have heard the story that CVTs were banned by Formula 1 after the 1993 season because the teams using them were seeing significant performance advantages over the teams using traditional transmissions, and Formula 1 wanted to restore the competitive balance to their series.

[mylittletony]

A CVT, in theory at least, is the perfect transmission. It can vary the ratio to hold the engine at peak torque for acceleration or peak efficiency for cruise. Cars getting smoked off the lights by small capacity scooters is a pretty good example of this.

The main issue is reliability and getting them to behave properly.

[metalshapes]

Yeah, I know about the DAF F3 racecars.

Dutch tuning expert Henk van Zalinge was very involved in that project.

He was one of the early tuners who really understood the effects of shock wave tuning ( the frequency that exists in the intake and exhaust of a racing engine)

He later also became famous for building his own design of bass.
( there is a vid of Sting from The Police playing his).


At some point, I made a trade with a racing buddy of mine.

I traded some Lola parts for a MAE pre Xflow downdraft head, which was one of the last ones that van Zalinge had for the DAF project.

I combined it with a steel bottom end short block that once lived under a Lotus Twincam head.
With low compression pistons to drop the compression ratio down to a usable number ( to match the larger displacement of the TC bottom end, and the racing gas I'll use ).

Eventually it will go in my Mallock U2 Mk6.




In this pic you can clearly see the double decker valvecover van Zalinge made out of two ( original magnesium) Cosworth valvecovers, to eliminate any oil mist that could come out of the high RPM screamer.

This was because any trace of oilspray would mess with the effectiveness of the rubber drivebelts of the DAF CVT system.






I love having this engine for all the history that is there...

[metalshapes]

pianotechniek.nl/z-Home.html

[metalshapes]

By sticking this head on a engine that is more than 1 1/2 times the displacement of the engine it was designed for, all of van Zalinge's precise calculations are gone of course.

It would have had a completely different intake as well ( using one throat of a big IDA Weber, instead of the individual runner setup I'm using with twin 40 IDF's).

But I figure it's still a very good gasflowed and ported cilinderhead that should easily outflow the 1500GT head it was based on.

We'll see what it does when I get it running...

[cortinaman]

I love a downdraught pre-crossflow - watching with interest. I've always fancied one (if I could find one!) for my Cortina but I think the carbs would poke through the bonnet (is that a bad thing?)

[metalshapes]

A bad thing?

No, I don't think so...

Your Cortina would look great with a setup like that.


Edit.

Found this pic of an Anglia.

[crockpot]

Nov 14, 2023 8:24:12 GMT cortinaman said:

I love a downdraught pre-crossflow - watching with interest. I've always fancied one (if I could find one!) for my Cortina but I think the carbs would poke through the bonnet (is that a bad thing?)

Make your own!
There were three copies made where I did my apprenticeship (1970-74). Two were true downdraft and mine had flanges for 40dcoe's because I got them cheap, so a sort of semi- downdraft. You can see the position of the carbs relative to the head here



They were made from Anglia heads and used a milling jig, exhaust tube and epoxy. They were very effective (and cheap). Pity I couldn't afford the proper engine internals which accounted for the occasional carnage at 8000rpm!

[metalshapes]

That is really cool crockpot.

I was looking at it, and it did not seem impossible to make...

You do hit water jackets, right?


I wonder if anybody ever made a version based on the Crossflow head.

There might be less advantage, because the X-flow intake ports are probably less restrictive, stock.


But with the aluminum X-flow heads that are currently available, it might be a thing that could be worth doing.

( you can still buy Fiat Abarth heads that are done exactly that way, to get rid of the siamesed intake).