Boosted Pinto.

[crockpot]

You are correct metalshapes the tubes went through the water galleries. They were made an interference fit, hammered in with epoxy and blended into the bowl with epoxy. Never had one leak (my engine ran dry because methanol).
I looked at the crossflow head but it's the wrong side as you would be going through the rocker cover rather than just head. I'm sure it would not be insurmountable though.
I love daft engineering projects!
Carry on!

[jim]

I've a few spare heads at home which I keep having thoughts on how to make my own down draught head

[metalshapes]

Nov 16, 2023 11:57:06 GMT jim said:

I've a few spare heads at home which I keep having thoughts on how to make my own down draught head

I hope you do.

And show us in a buildthread.

[metalshapes]

Like I mentioned before, this build will be to build a racecar that has low operating costs (larger capacity engine at a fairly low tune, so lightly stressed), simplicity to make it easy to maintain, and hopefully not too expensive to build ( easy to get 2nd hand parts, and parts I already own).

That is why I was planning to use a wet sump.

But looking into that a bit more, I found that a good replacement pump was about $135, a modified wet sump racing pan ( sump) was over $450 ( and on back order)

A new dry sump pump, specially for this engine, goes for $1700 apparently.
So that was out.

But then I found a used Weaver dry sump pump for a Small Block Chevy, condition unknown, for $175 ( + shipping).

So I took a chance on it.

It may be damaged, but being a Weaver, I can probably find used parts if I need them ( and I have some left over from the one I have on my Capri).

I already have a NOS never used or bolted to an engine cast aluminum dry sump pan for this engine.

[metalshapes]

I'm just in the parts collecting/ planning stage of this project.

But I think things are slowly moving in the right direction.


And I'm learning about the parts that are completely unknown and new to me ( the Powerglide transmission, what the exact specs of the torque converter will need to be, etc).

[v8ian]

I'm following these posts with interest, Pinto is a Heavy engine just as well you are not using a Lima Pinto, I'm surprised you can find parts for the 2.0 where you are, is it cheaper to source parts in Europe?
Weaver Dry Sump pumps.... many moons ago we used to race silhouette formula called Thunder saloons, after many imps and other small cars, we went for a VW variant fastback on a March f5000 tub, powered by a Surtees Can Am engine (Alloy BBC), we had nothing but grief with weaver pumps, ended up selling up because we wiped another crank.

[metalshapes]

Actually, I am planning to use the Lima.

I have a SVO version ( factory turbocharged), that I will convert from EFI to blowthrough carb using Maserati Biturbo parts.
And a simple MSD ignition.

I could use my 2litre version too ( the Maserati carb and pressurebox currently live on that in the back of my sandrail), but I figure the better rods and pistons of the 2.3 SVO may be worth the extra weight.

The 2 litre pinto was sold here in the Federalised version of the Mk1 & 2 Capri ( Cologne built ).

I have a couple of those squireled away as well, so if the SVO turns out to be stupid heavy I can make the switch without too much trouble.
( I know the SVO turbocharger works on a 2litre, because I have one of those on my sandrail as well).


Your troubles with the Weaver pumps is not good news.

I'll have to keep an eye on that.



I've seen some pics of a BBC powered Type3 with Surtees valvecovers.
That must have been yours.

Must have been very exciting to be involved with something like that...

[metalshapes]

[metalshapes]

The stock SVO with a re-ring and fresh bearings should be able to take about 20PSI as is.
( I 've read the stock bottom end is good for 350Hp).

The 2 litre would probably need special ( aftermarket) low compression forged pistons to take that kind of abuse.


But I have a dry sump pan for either engine, and the Poweglide would fit on either as well...


I like the simplicity and lower cost of the SVO, but I'm not thrilled about the extra weight.

I'll weigh both of them ( with the extra parts I plan to use), and make my decision based on that.

[v8ian]

Nov 22, 2023 8:05:23 GMT metalshapes said:

Your troubles with the Weaver pumps is not good news.

I'll have to keep an eye on that.



I've seen some pics of a BBC powered Type3 with Surtees valvecovers.
That must have been yours.

Must have been very exciting to be involved with something like that...

It was featured in Car and Car Conversions years after it was sold, don't know what happened to it after that, Might have been exciting also prohibitively expensive,
The story behind the weaver pumps, lay with the "Engine Builder" who we used to refresh the engine, I think it originally had a Milodon pump? replaced with a Weaver when refreshed, but the Weaver was ported differently to the original, the engine ran with good pressure until you drove it, any G force and you lost oil pressure, 3 rebuilds later we threw in the towel, with the engine builder saying it wasn't his fault..??

[metalshapes]

I have a race prepped Lotus Elan diff I plan to use.
( I have one, and I like the flexibility of ratios with the English axle drop out diff).

But it will be the bottleneck, strength wise.


So it really doesnt matter what happens in front of the output shaft of the transmission.

The way I see it, the torque and Hp at that point is what matters ( shooting for about 225 to 250Hp with as flat as possible powerband )

Transmission losses ( and torque converter) would be compensated by the larger displacement and boost...

And if we build the transmission for softer shifts, that should help the Elan diff live as well.

[metalshapes]

Nov 22, 2023 8:37:24 GMT v8ian said:

Nov 22, 2023 8:05:23 GMT metalshapes said:

Your troubles with the Weaver pumps is not good news.

I'll have to keep an eye on that.



I've seen some pics of a BBC powered Type3 with Surtees valvecovers.
That must have been yours.

Must have been very exciting to be involved with something like that...

It was featured in Car and Car Conversions years after it was sold, don't know what happened to it after that, Might have been exciting also prohibitively expensive,
The story behind the weaver pumps, lay with the "Engine Builder" who we used to refresh the engine, I think it originally had a Milodon pump? replaced with a Weaver when refreshed, but the Weaver was ported differently to the original, the engine ran with good pressure until you drove it, any G force and you lost oil pressure, 3 rebuilds later we threw in the towel, with the engine builder saying it wasn't his fault..??

Ah... One of those deals...

I have a pretty good collection of tripple C's.

I must have seen it there.

[metalshapes]

Mystery oil pressure problems can be ticky...

I have something like that going on with the aluminum block ( SBC based ) Donovan for my Capri.

It has good oilpressure on the dyno, but it falls away after about 6 laps in the car.

It does it on the dry sump and the wet sump setup I had in the car before.

And the wet sump has been ( in that car) on 2 different engines, the dry sump on 2 as well.

So 3 engines total, with the Donovan being the common denominator ( and the only one with problems).


I put a milder engine in the Capri so I could enjoy it again.

I plan to put the Donovan in my '32 to chase the problem ( because that car will be so much easier to work on than the Capri), starting with a regular off the shelf high volume pump and wet sump, and take it from there.

Who knows... If I really like how the Donovan does in the '32, I might leave it in there...


Its an amazing engine.
Over 500Hp, and massive torque from low RPM and up.

So much torque in fact it was not controlable coming out of a tight corner.

I built my own throttle linkage for the quad 48IDA's to give a long pedal for the first 1/2 of throttle opening, and the other 1/2 on the last little bit of pedal movement.

That made a world of difference...

[v8ian]

Probably better off without the VW, it had the Kiss of death on it, bought the car with a fresh 383 Donovan that hydro locked @6500k on the main strait at Brands on the first test day, all that was salvageable was the injection, (Hence the BBC), strangely, I had been somewhere and seen a Donovan SBC head being welded a few weeks earlier, because they had "Ported Thru" into the water jacket, coincidence?? probably not....

[metalshapes]

Yeah, probably not...

[metalshapes]

I found a engine to do the mock ups and fab work with.

Its a Lima out of a '80s Ranger (truck), only a 2 litre but that's OK, all outside dimensions are the same as a 2.3


The 2.3 SVO I'll use is turbocharged.

It would be really easy to keep the stock turbo and convert the EFI to blow through carb ( blow through so I can put a intercooler on it ).

But the exhaust side is on the driver side, and I don't want that turbo that near to me.

Moving it to the other side of the engine is possible, but would take some really complicated exhaust plumbing.

And also, turbo's ( specially older ones like this one) come with turbo lag.


So I mocked up a Eaton M90, to see if that would be a viable alternative.

The engine has all the good parts in it to live with boost, so I think that could be a really nice combination.


I also mocked up a twin IDF intake I have, with a set of Webers and a plenum.
( wont use that at first, it will get a Maserati Bitirbo based setup but I want to keep my options open for later).

I put the dry sump pan on it.

The dry sump pump isnt here yet, that will have to find a spot as well...

[metalshapes]

The Maserati carb and pressure box may actually be a better setup for a couple of reasons.

The carb is a Weber DCNVH, and from what I've found online, it can support up to 300HP.

So plenty for what I'm trying to do.

Its already jetted for a blow trough boost application, so dialing it in might go quicker.

Its only a single carb, so no synchronizing necessary.

And because of the weird angle of the #1 and #4 intake ports (sharply angled in) I might get better flow when I combine it with a Essininger racing intake I have than I would with the IDF intake.

And I have the carb and pressure box already working on my sandrail.
( I'm going back to a simple stock Capri carb on that, without the turbo, because it sits outside which makes it less reliable).

But the twin IDF's do a lot look sexier, and I may feel the need to complicate my life some more at a later date...


So I want to set everything up in such a way that the switchover would be easy.


Pic of the Maserati setup on the rail.

[metalshapes]

Does anybody know how much boost you can put through a IDF carb in a blow trough application?
( boost plenum bolted to the top, so the carb body open to atmospheric pressure).

The casting on them doesn't look that thick, and at some boost level you'd expect the carbs to be blown apart...

Haven't found anything online about that yet.



I'm aiming for about 15 to 20PSI with this engine.

[metalshapes]

I'm sure this thread is too boring/ abstract/ pie-in-the-sky for some.

But by taking a bit of extra time in the planning stages, I can (hopefully) avoid painting myself in a corner later.

And make the actual build go smoother...


And also, the planning & parts collecting stage is a lot of fun for me as well.

Specially with something that is exploring new territory (like this one is, for me).


I've learned a lot, already...

[mylittletony]

I find it fascinating following an unusual engine build, especially as we're along for journey of the thought process rather than just witnessing the end result