Long term garage 'modification' - Recent update...

[Mr S]

Jun 8, 2011 10:13:29 GMT pablopancake said:

Jun 7, 2011 21:25:01 GMT lewist123 said:

Sealing joints is always a double edged sword.

It can stop the water getting in there in the first place, but equally if it fails, it can stop water that got in getting back out.

Not 100% sure about the pro's vs con's. I will ask a chap at work tomorrow what his thoughts are.

Lewis

I am no expert, but my 68 year old man is, and he's still grafting. surprisingly, a lot of his work is garden gates, large proper gates, internal and external oak doors, all stuff that is such a high materials costs, that the companies end up being too dear, but he has such low overheads he can get it done for a sensible price.

from years of helping, holding and passing tools, I agree with lewis, better to leave it unsealed so the wet that WILL get in has somewhere to go.

You've done that recess for the vertical boards perfectly IMO, sometimes people get too clever and introduce water traps, it'll just drain out of that.

you need to consider the same for the glass, it' doesnt need to be hermetically sealed, so a stitch of your sealant around the glass bead will leave gaps to let it drain.

its the hanging weight that kills stuff of this size, so if they sit nicely on a 'wedge' when closed to take sooe of the weight(like upvc openers have that plastic insert that kind of guides the opener into the frame) and have a substanstial flip down leg or something to take some weight when open, a good soaking in a decent preservative and I can't see why these wont last for decades.

That's exactly the kind of information I was hoping for - massive thanks Pablo - especially the bit about taking up the weight when the doors are at rest. It's something I'd half thought about in the past but never really added it into the design process. I will now!

No pics from today as yet (as I've been working hard....), but the second door outer is all clamped up with the glue drying. Got the T+G to cut and then a little 'mod' to make to the side door next.

Had a call from the place I'd ordered the hinges from, they will be here on Friday, so I hope to have them hung by the weekend! Fingers crossed..

Right, time for pizza then back to work for me! Pics and further progress later

[Mr S]

Well, here's todays pictures!

As you can see, the second door is all set in place (albeit on it's side at the minute)



The T+G is all cut to size and trial-fitted in place. I've not actually screwed it in yet as it will make the door too heavy for me to move on my own (although the pilot holes for the screws are all drilled). I plan to put the doors in place as they are, fully supported from underneath. Fit the hinges with the doors supported like this then screw the T+G in and figure out what to do with the bracing! Then I'll remove the supports from underneath and hope and pray that they don't drop....



I also fitted a strengthening 'brace' across the centre of the side door that I'd fitted - this was to hold the side pieces of the door in and provide strength for the T+G in the middle.



The plan for tomorrow is to first take (and probably fail lol) a Microsoft exam for work (70-640 if anyone cares! lol) - I've done sod all revision as I've been busy with other stuff.... Any excuse!

Then, I'll see about making the bracing ready to attach. I plan to make a single cross piece (similar to the side door), halfway between where the windows will go and the base. Then a diagonal piece that goes from under where the window will go to that, and another piece from that to the base. As per the picture (the hinge side is the far side in my diagram below).



Does that look reasonably from those in the know? Or should I just use a single diagonal piece?

Stay tuned folks, more tomorrow all being well ;D

[LowStandards]

Single!

curse word knows why, i just like the sound of it better.

I feel now i've got over the inappropriate touching last time i helped, so i'm ready to rejoin this project and help you hang them.

Just give me a shout you fruity beast...

[rysz]

Love this and good luck for AD on 2008.

Doing the SQL one at the moment myself!

Rysz.

[lewist123]

I talked to a chap at work today about joint seeling. It might be a good idea to seel the end grain of the timber comonants, but not seel the joint itself. It will reduce the moisture uptake on the end grain, but allow moisture in the joints to drain back out again.

As for bracing, one great big one would be better. Increased leaverage moments and stuff.

Also, the door is bound to drop a little bit, so perhaps jack it up a touch in the middle (a few mm or so.

Also, it is best if the brace is working in compression, so the brace should go to the bottom of the door at the hinge end, and up to the middle of the door.

[Mr S]

Jun 8, 2011 20:16:42 GMT lewist123 said:

I talked to a chap at work today about joint seeling. It might be a good idea to seel the end grain of the timber comonants, but not seel the joint itself. It will reduce the moisture uptake on the end grain, but allow moisture in the joints to drain back out again.

As for bracing, one great big one would be better. Increased leaverage moments and stuff.

Also, the door is bound to drop a little bit, so perhaps jack it up a touch in the middle (a few mm or so.

Also, it is best if the brace is working in compression, so the brace should go to the bottom of the door at the hinge end, and up to the middle of the door.

Thanks Lewis, that's all useful information. Muchly appreciated

Gimpy - that touching was highly appropriate, you love it....! Cheers dude.

[skinnylew]

coming on nicely!!

[Mr S]

Well, I failed the exam (as expected seeing as I didn't even open the book... Still got 580!) but as I have a free second shot, I'm not that fussed...

So, back from that this afternoon and I decided that I ought to cut, shape and fit the braces. So I did!

Door 1



Door 2



Close up of the front



Close up of the back (glued and screwed with 12x1 1/2" screws)



That's all for today folks - not as productive as other days but meh, I needed a change of scenery, so after I'd done that, I cleaned and prepped the Merc's replacement front wings for welding (just 2 little patches required). Only got one more lowering spring to fit to that too - might try and fit that in before the weekend's out. Must make a spring compressor for this one too, much safer.....!

I think tomorrow I'll see about making the frames to hold the windows in until the hinges arrive - then it's hanging time (hopefully at high noon! lol). No real bother if I can't fit them in before I hang them, that's something I can do with them in-situ.

Stay tuned!

EDIT: Can anyone recommend me a good clear wood preservative? I used cuprinol on the side door and although I'm sure it's good, it's effing expensive. That said, I'd rather pay for something good than get something cheap that doesn't work.... Ta!

[lewist123]

Ref the clear wood preservative. Do you mean a preservative or a clear decorative type coating?

If you mean a clear coating, I would suggest using a pigmented UV stable coating. Clear coating get broken down quickly by the sun and will require regular re-finishing.

If you meen a perservative, then yes treat the timber but combine that with the above.

[Mr S]

I was planning to use a preservative and then paint it Lewis - I guess they are all much of a muchness?

[lewist123]

Ah, didn't realise you were planning to paint them too.

Any decent quality clear preservative would be fine. I am not up on my preservatives either so will ask our coatings man at work tomorrow if there is anything specific to look out for.

I do know that modern preservatives aren't brillient. All the nasty chemicals that made old preservative good have all been banned these days. No copper chrome arsenic concoctions these days.

[Mr S]

Well, a quick early morning 'teaser' shot. I couldn't resist propping one up in place (and it gave me a good chance to measure and make sure they will actually fit... Looks like they will!)..



I'm just waiting for the hinges to arrive now, in the meantime I'll be prepping them for paint/preserver!

Happy days

[lewist123]

Hi mate.

I asked our coatings man here about preservatives and paint systems.

He suggested this
www.sadolin.co.uk/professional/products/translucent/ultra-base/index.php
for the preservative

Followed by this
www.sadolin.co.uk/homeowner/products/exterior/woodshieldopaquewoodprotection/description
For the paint finish.

Good stuff apparently, but I guess it is going to be spendy. Although the finish is guaranteed to last a fair while, so will probably be cheaper in the long run.

Lewis

[lewist123]

Although there are a raft of products on the Sadolins website that do all sorts of things, so have a look if there is a product more appropriate for what you want.

[Mr S]

That's great Lewis, I really do appreciate you asking at work for me - you can't beat real-world experience And like you say, I'd rather spend a few quid now and not have to rebuild the doors in 5 years...!

As for today, well there aren't really any more updates. The hinges didn't arrive until gone 2 and it's time to go fetch my daughter from school now! lol I did fit my last lowering spring to the Merc and did some more prep work on the bodywork though, so it's not been a wasted day!!

I also decided that I need a hand with hanging the doors too - it's too fiddly to do something that big on my own. Calling Mr Gimp (with Karlos on the reserves list! lol)

Cheers, Martin

[grizz]

You do make me laugh, I love "just quickly taking a set up look" invariably I fail on the "stop there" part and then get sucked into doing some work.

Looking good there.

[Mr S]

More progress!!

For starters, I realised that I hadn't shown a pic of the hinges - here they are, they are HUGE (900mm long...!) lol



I realised that setting the door in position prior to hanging them would be tricky seeing as there wasn't any level ground underneath them on which to 'shim' them and get them at the right height. So a quick trip to B+Q, 5 bags of multipurpose concrete, a quick pair of scaff planks cut to size and screwed together and we have this poured on Monday evening, well set this evening:



Not perfectly level but it doesn't matter, I'll sort that out later!

Then I figured I'd have a bash at hanging one of the doors so I can check they are the right size. Turns out they pretty much are! I need to plane 1mm or so off the LHS door, but my plane isn't here with me, so that will have to wait....

Anyway, here they are - trial fitted with the other door butted up:



And on it's own with all 3 hinges...



More tomorrow, weather permitting and assuming I can find my plane!

EDIT: I know the hinges are wonky, but meh, I'm learning as I go and I'll probably correct that tomorrow!

[skinnylew]

looking very good indeedy

[camper damper]

nice doors better then mine my doors try to kill you when you open them

[Mr S]

Seeing as rain is forecast for the rest of the week, I gave them a good coat of clear preservative this morning before I head off to work!