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I've checked the dates of the Retrorides gathering and unfortunately we are alreday committed to a seminar at another event that day However , we are always available to give free advice on anything within our remit by email or PM. Hopefully next year we can put your venue down first ? If any of you belong to clubs that woudl like ACE to come along and answer questions etc feel free to contact us.
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Here here, well done us! ;D I'll be referring to the BIVA manual now with anything I do, just to safeguard myself should I go far enough with the car to warrant a test. It's a necessary evil but as aceadvice said, it could have been a whole lot worse for us. This has always been our advice, do all mods with SVA / BIVA in mind. We've never tried to tell people how and what to build ( contrary to many rumours ) all we've tried to do is provide support and informed advice so decisons are based on fact not hearsay. To help ACE move forward signing up to the newsletter and spreading word to anyone you know who is into any form of modified cars or daily used classics will help protect all our futures.
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Llewellyn
Part of things
Captain Slow
Posts: 330
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One of our concerns with Historic registered cars in this country is that they may become subject to the same sort of restrictions curently in place across Europe (exact details varies from country to country) Is the really going to happen? and where can i find details on what restricions other countries have? This is just removing the freedom to drive what we want. Basically if you want to drive a nice car you have to earn shed loads of money to afford a nice Audi RS4 or whatever, because the 1963 S type jag you have been using for daily transport for the the last 19 years, can now only be driven a limited mileage.......
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Last Edit: Jun 9, 2009 9:55:35 GMT by Llewellyn
^^^^^^MAXIMUM BIG-HERO LIFT-OFF OVERSTEER POINTS^^^^^^
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The word used is 'may' not in an attempt to scaremonger but looking at the rest of Europes restrictione and the constant Green lobbying, coupled to Her Majestys Governments displeasure that vehicles in the Historic classes have doubled since the free tax was introduced leads us to believe it is an area of concern. Basic details held here but we will be updating shortly www.the-ace.org.uk/classic-vehicles.htmlFrance allowed use within Province based on a ticket system once they were used up that was it but you can now buy extra books. Austria is 31 days use per year notification in adavance , Germany is notice in advance of use ,by ticket, shortest route there and back though they do have several classes of Historic use . Likewise even Australia has a restricted use Historic rego set up. We also have first hand report sof modified car sbeing thrown out of Historic class in those counties but no option of getting back on the road ,unlike over here . All info by contacts within those countries. Look at this www.vda.de/en/publikationen/jahresberichte/auto2007/historische/h2.htmland this www.the-ace.org.uk/update-tightening-of-emissions-in-germany.htmlfor examples of what is going on and threatening unrestricted use of Historic vehicles elswhere
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Last Edit: Jun 9, 2009 10:18:30 GMT by kapri
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Llewellyn
Part of things
Captain Slow
Posts: 330
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I have read somewhere about people in France not registering their cars as classics, and just registering them as normal cars, thus not taking on the restrictions that registering as a classic entails.
I would have no problem paying to tax my classic vehicle as long as i could use it as much as i wanted. I didnt buy it so that i wouldnt have to pay tax.
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^^^^^^MAXIMUM BIG-HERO LIFT-OFF OVERSTEER POINTS^^^^^^
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aceadvice - many thanks for taking the time to explain everything. Your efforts are very much appreciated
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Llewellyn
Part of things
Captain Slow
Posts: 330
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I'll second that, its nice to have a level headed perspective on things. Cheers
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^^^^^^MAXIMUM BIG-HERO LIFT-OFF OVERSTEER POINTS^^^^^^
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On aslightly different note ACE may now be available to attend the Retrorides gathering . Got to tie it up with some of the other team members but we'll get back to you.
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I have a '75 corvette which I'm restoring, which has a separate chassis. Although I'm not planning any chassis mods, I am about to fit a 6-71 supercharger to the engine, which will poke through the bonnet. Would I need to get this car re-tested via IVA? and would it pass?
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I have a '75 corvette which I'm restoring, which has a separate chassis. Although I'm not planning any chassis mods, I am about to fit a 6-71 supercharger to the engine, which will poke through the bonnet. Would I need to get this car re-tested via IVA? and would it pass? No, engine mods alone won't bag you an IVA (under current rules) A blower through the bonnet might attract the attention of the police, who can invoke power under the road traffic acts if they think it's dangerous (can't see past it, might suck in small children etc...)
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Didnt Nightmares racing get pulled for an overbig supercharger sticking out of his Cortina bonnet a while back?
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.
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yeah, thats what I was thinking of. IIRC he got a ticket and a rectification order, not a SVA test.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Brake ,suspension upgrades, lowering ,engien mods etc do not take you into BIVA territory. If you make mods to chassis or monococque then you are into it. Likewise if you only keep the monococque or chassis and swap everything else out.
Would you believe it is perfectly possible to fit a blower sticking through the hood and still pass BIVA ? HONEST ! It's all about how high and meeting lines of vision / radii criteria ,probably clearer spec than the C&U regs that are often used against us which are open to interpretation .
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Ace, I have a question...
Regarding points and part swapping, I present the case of my 1968 cortina. When first restored, a 1800 zetec was fitted in place of the 1600 crossflow. No other mods The gearbox exploded. I fitted a (stronger) type 3 The axle started to whine. I changed it out for one off a mk1 capri
The steering and brakes are still single circuit, non servo, steering box. IF I change them out to accomodate a capri rack and uprights ( a common and documented mk2 mod) , and fit a dual circut master cyl and a servo (fitted as standard if you live in an export country requiring this from new, like Canada) Is the car going to be deemed "not original" through the points system, cos by my reckoning there is only the (unmodified) shell left at that point. OR is it a series of repairs to an existing vehicle?
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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This stuff about radiusing the bodyshell edges and wheel arches; Does that mean making sort of safety edges
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SOC, it would be good if these things were seen as ongoing repairs but not the way it works unfortunately. By the letter of the rules you would be outside the right to retain reg. Changing the brakes isn't a problem, it's the suspension mods that would push it over the tp even though it is a same style suspension swap. However if you had done everything else but kept original engine and box you'd be fine. The trouble with DVLA is that you are not dealing with engineers or mechanics that understand the component swapping in any ways shape or form. In an ideal world if the car still looked like what was written in the logbook all would be fine . However the regs we have from DVLA, and in place for over 25 years ,don't allow that. Had we had the 'net back when this stiff was being written we would be in a far better position now but no use crying over spilled milk , all we can do is protect what we have now.
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Last Edit: Jun 9, 2009 22:31:57 GMT by kapri
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This stuff about radiusing the bodyshell edges and wheel arches; Does that mean making sort of safety edges Sometimes yes, look at a modern car and you'll see plastic inner liners etc used to get round this. You can use adhesive trim or U channel rubber but all methods must be " durable , safe and of a method/style as used by OEM ". That means the old blags of pipe lagging won't cut it any longer , as they were outlawed about 4 years back.
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still seems a bit rum to me really, Find me a 40 year old car that aint trigger's broom.
I remember the inception of the regs you mention (kit car scene in my youth) despite the lack of internet we did have an active and lobbying scene to the DVLA at the time. The points system was supposed to be for determining identity where a car had radically changed (either in shape or wheelplan, or from mono to chassis construction for example). It WAS what tipped the balance between Q plate and age related reg. No one ever mentioned having a situation where an exisiting road vehicle could lose its registration through parts swapping where the car itself remains unchanged (IE its still a '68 tina, still has its chassis no, the vin and logbook match). That, to me, is an entirely new twist.
In fact, I can think of cases where DVLA have allowed retention of registration on what was effectivly a competely different car, albeit looking the same (domino mini, Spider engineering Zetec elan, for example) - even Paul Banham's later "creations" retain the donor reg and circumvented SVA despite losing the entire outer skin of the monocoque
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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so what happens to the H 1 FEV the " mk1 escort" built by ford ? can't put a newer reg on an older car!!!!! or will that still be a case of money talks? still looks like another way to screw motorists to me give with one hand take with the other! i don't drive my tax exempt tinas for the free tax i drive'em cuz i love'm ! but i've not run my 81 mk5 crayford cortina this summer cuz before it puts one tyre on whats left of our raods for 6 months i'd be over £150 outa pocket for t&t. & we must remember that recycleing is only ok if the powers that be can make money out of it & where cars are concerned thats not on. rant over , asbestos suit on (oops elephant safety won't like that)
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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SOC, I've been involved with the DVLA side of stuff for over 30 years, those have always been the regs and the way they have been applied and certainly aren't going to change without a lot of lobbying that would also mean putting our cards on the table ,better to work with what we have, slowly but surely.Best for all car modifiers to get their acts together BEFORE any draconian measures are introduced.
Once everyone understands how the system works they can make their choice of components based on wheher they wish to remain in Historic or undergo BIVA . I've built several quite radical cars yet worked within Historic in the past.
Banham did get away with his reskinning for awhile but a lot of that was based on Local Office interpretation, something that the DVLA Consultation Document of 4-5 years back sought to clarify
Hopefully you should have a PM as well shortly.
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Last Edit: Jun 10, 2009 8:42:21 GMT by kapri
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