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Dec 20, 2010 14:30:40 GMT
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Ok a few points
1, where is the money coming from for the dept that will police/book limited mileage journeys? Govt dept are dropping like flies as it is, so I can't see the money being found to open a new one, or extend the duties of an old one.
2, if the mileage goes on the MOTs, there is going to be a hell of a lot of broken speedos out there! AFAIK currently a working speedo is not an MOT fail.
3, Pre 1980 cars don't need a full VIN plate WINK WINK! So (currently) that's a whole 8 years worth of 'garage drawer' finds suddenly being returned to the road.
Is there a time scale on this, or is it just another 'this day will come' type date? Every year that passes will mean, as vehicles get older, more are legible for tax exemption. Which in itself makes the whole thing unattractive. Unless the EU fine our Govt for not joining in, I can see the start date being 'one day' or tomorrow, and tomorrow never comes......
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,937
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Dec 20, 2010 14:38:09 GMT
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3, Pre 1980 cars don't need a full VIN plate WINK WINK! So (currently) that's a whole 8 years worth of 'garage drawer' finds suddenly being returned to the road. Help me out with a little more explaination on this one please? I have a relevant interest to a 1979 car that wasn't UK registered but is now back in the UK and has a few other issues around chassis number and not having an engine didn't help although I have finally got copies of the "Original country of registration" papers which helps a bit
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,538
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Dec 20, 2010 15:18:11 GMT
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Most people seem to be assuming it would be a way of opting out of Historic status but Kev seems to be implying that it would leave you stuck with FIVA refusing your historic ID card and no normal car registration because it's over 30. I hope I misinterpreted. Ben, this is exactly where I got to with it and would also love to know. My concern too. I seem to remember reading on here recently about historic registration some where (Belgium?) being optional so that if you don't register your car that way you can drive unlimited. That is what myself and I'm sure many others here would want. The option of having a "historic" labelled car that comes with free tax and limited use or to choose not to go that way and pay your car tax and use it like everyone else. I have old cars 'cos I like old cars not because I don't have to pay tax. If you look at things from a financial aspect the insurance savings are greater than a year's VED anyway. I paid my car tax like the rest of the population before the "historic" free class was introduced. These new proposals will only be bad if everything over 30 years or whatever is automatically given the historic status with no option to opt out of it. So far there doesn't seem to be a mention of whether this will happen but the worse case is not one I look forward to. As with Akku, it would be a big alteration to my lifestyle and current freedoms.
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,614
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Dec 20, 2010 15:23:33 GMT
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So, one of the ironies of all this is that up till now we've all been trying to avoid BIVA like the plague. Now it seems we'll all be clamouring to get our modified classics through BIVA so we can use them on a daily basis.
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Dec 20, 2010 15:31:16 GMT
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3, Pre 1980 cars don't need a full VIN plate WINK WINK! So (currently) that's a whole 8 years worth of 'garage drawer' finds suddenly being returned to the road. Help me out with a little more explaination on this one please? I have a relevant interest to a 1979 car that wasn't UK registered but is now back in the UK and has a few other issues around chassis number and not having an engine didn't help although I have finally got copies of the "Original country of registration" papers which helps a bit Ah, that's for DVLA/UK registered cars, you need the VIN number stamped or permanently fixed to the chassis to the chassis to satisfy MOT regs.
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crazymonkey
Posted a lot
ummm....what was I doing again???
Posts: 1,981
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Dec 20, 2010 15:35:50 GMT
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A good point has been made on here. What about classic rallies and in particular charity/club events. I know of several multi-country classic and vintage events. This will screw them up and its because of a rule like this that charity events will die out and charities will be forced to cease. So basically by conforming to this legislation they will shut down a load of charities, clubs and events. I know for certain that if the public saw this happening there would be uproar at the the very least.
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whoever said dogs were man's best friend....obviously never heard of cable ties
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Dec 20, 2010 15:36:23 GMT
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The option of having a "historic" labelled car that comes with free tax and limited use or to choose not to go that way and pay your car tax and use it like everyone else. Freedom of choice...... for the individual to choose what's best for him/her??? Go wash yer mouth out Seth! The law (and lawyers) have to pigeon hole everything and everyone so it can be written down in law and applied to the letter. Your way would have people thinking for themselves, applying analytical thought to their everyday problems and situations and coming up with there own solutions. Can't be having any of that in a 'free' country now can we?? The right for the individual to choose became under attack ever since they invented multiple choice questionaires..... don't worry if none of the answers fit your circumstances.... just tick the one that's nearest love! (As they say down at the council offices). If I'm asked to fill one in I just tell them that none of the questions have relevant answers so I'd rather not fill it in than risk being accused of falsifying the information later. They don't like it but so far I've not had any problems.
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'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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Dec 20, 2010 15:38:05 GMT
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So, one of the ironies of all this is that up till now we've all been trying to avoid BIVA like the plague. Now it seems we'll all be clamouring to get our modified classics through BIVA so we can use them on a daily basis. Considering how much the actual test is, plus the cost of any alterations, I would say take the free tax and take a chance on getting your wrists slapped if you go over the mileage. It's all supposition at the moment, I can't see this being popular with the Govt on many levels to get this to actually being law. It's very easy to say one day or even one day soon but with the current climate I doubt it will be soon. As I said, every year that passes means more cars (already on the road, let alone those pressed into service) will be legible Oh, and I am not burying my head in the sand, we all know the current Govt is looking to cut corners and save money, no loose it or spend it by giving away free tax discs or opening new dept to push paper about it.
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Dec 20, 2010 16:03:48 GMT
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So, one of the ironies of all this is that up till now we've all been trying to avoid BIVA like the plague. Now it seems we'll all be clamouring to get our modified classics through BIVA so we can use them on a daily basis. Considering how much the actual test is, plus the cost of any alterations, I would say take the free tax and take a chance on getting your wrists slapped if you go over the mileage. Being caught going over the mileage may incur slapped wrists (the law doesn't exist yet, so who knows ) but what happens if/when you have an accident outside of your allocated mileage? Insurance? If it came to it, I'd rather chop a chunk out of my chassis and weld it in a bit different (may as well upgrade whilst I'm at it ;D ) pay for the test and have a bulletproof Q. God knows what I'd do if I kept my newly BIVAd car for 30 years making it elligible all over again though ;D
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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring.
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Dec 20, 2010 16:05:43 GMT
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So if i did a load of modding to the A35 (keeping within the 8 points) and this modding was done before this new rule came into force, would i be okay, or will ALL cars that are modded need to be checked to see if they are still historic? And if then its not historic, is it just a case of paying road tax and having no limits, or will the car become illegal to use (sorry if this has been covered, i just need clarification
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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Dec 20, 2010 16:10:15 GMT
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A good point has been made on here. What about classic rallies and in particular charity/club events. I know of several multi-country classic and vintage events. This will screw them up and its because of a rule like this that charity events will die out and charities will be forced to cease. So basically by conforming to this legislation they will shut down a load of charities, clubs and events. I know for certain that if the public saw this happening there would be uproar at the the very least. There are also a lot of very rich , influential and famous people go on these rallies too.
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Dec 20, 2010 16:15:44 GMT
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Oh well. Suddenly when it looks like the jig is up, you all want to pound your chests like Norm.
Thing is, us "Norms" do more than pound either our chests or our puds. We FIGHT this kind of horseshit. You've lolli-gagged so long with the EU centralization, that you stand to lose your very national character. Which, for Britain, was always to be as quirky and iconic a chap as you please. That's going dodo. Shame.
If you bring up "FIGHT", then you get told off as "not being constructive". Meanwhile, the greennazis fight all they want, and nobody here dumps on them for being "not constructive". So one side fights unsullied. The other side sits on its duff.
Was it Ben Franklin who said, "People get all the freedom they deserve"?
Regardless, I adhere to the Beastie Boys ethic: "You have to fight for your right to party."
Don't want to fight? Queue up for the Soylent Green intake door essentially.
Good god, what I could do with $100 from each historic car owner in the EU to raise holy hell............. I'd have this stuck right up their arses using their own documents about human freedoms and all that BS they like to spew.
Edit: And another thing.... This policy by the EU could EASILY be portrayed as an ELITIST and AFFLUENT policy to deprive the poor and middle-class average Sven-Six-Pack of his means of personal mobility, even his ability to get hold of -or keep- his job. Some people use old cars out of financial need. And in the depths of recession, the EU is going to strip downtrodden folks of their means of transport? Criminal! World Court time! The Ministers are stealing from the poor, bucking up rich owners of new car factories! ;D
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Last Edit: Dec 20, 2010 16:23:10 GMT by Team Blitz
Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Dec 20, 2010 16:18:07 GMT
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I'm not sure about the milage policing, as i understand it your permitted mileage wont need checking on your speedo if your only allowed to make trips to shows/clubs/meets etc and you have to book them in advance, i assume you'll be telling them how many miles you plan to do and it'll go in your file how many you have used up.
Number plate cameras could just record every classic car number and compare it against what you have booked, if your not where your supposed to be then a fine would be on the way without any actual people being involved at all.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,937
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Dec 20, 2010 16:22:15 GMT
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Dec 20, 2010 16:25:52 GMT
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So, one of the ironies of all this is that up till now we've all been trying to avoid BIVA like the plague. Now it seems we'll all be clamouring to get our modified classics through BIVA so we can use them on a daily basis. Indeed, which is why ACE has worked on it to get the best deal we could. For thsoe who have been all through our website you will see ( in the Classic Car section) that an attempt to limit or redefine Historic vehicles has always been of concern. If these regs go through then our worst fears may com etrue. To all the other questions we ae no answers because nothing has changed yet ...BUT the links show what is being considered and may of you are seeing the ramifications also.
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Dec 20, 2010 16:28:25 GMT
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I'm not sure about the milage policing, as I understand it your permitted mileage wont need checking on your speedo if your only allowed to make trips to shows/clubs/meets etc and you have to book them in advance, I assume you'll be telling them how many miles you plan to do and it'll go in your file how many you have used up. Number plate cameras could just record every classic car number and compare it against what you have booked, if your not where your supposed to be then a fine would be on the way without any actual people being involved at all. So i might have to keep a file of where i am going, when i am going there, and ask for permission if i want to go further, well that sounds almost like a curfew
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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Dec 20, 2010 16:30:19 GMT
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I added to my post. Not speaking about RR in "here". "Here" is a reference to the public square in all its facets, the Beeb, the Times, the dominant electronic media, even scientific organizations have been bought off by "green" money. Hello? Has anybody noted the ever-colder trend of the past decade? The basis for all the EU claptrappery (FACT! see #5) is human-caused global warming theories. And #2, if saving our hobby is not being positive and constructive, then I don't know what is! The unpleasantness wasn't initiated by old car hobby people. We encounter the real world we live in, mate. Not the world we wish it was!
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Dec 20, 2010 16:34:21 GMT
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Number plate cameras could just record every classic car number and compare it against what you have booked, if your not where your supposed to be then a fine would be on the way without any actual people being involved at all. And what would happen if a road was closed diverting you somewhere else for whatever reason? Or there was an emergency of some description? Would it be another case of the motorist having to prove himself innocent,rather than the court having to prove him guilty? Or do incidents like that make it an unworkable solution?
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Dec 20, 2010 16:38:33 GMT
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Or there was an emergency of some description? Easy, when your wife is giving birth and the only car you have working is the classic, you have to ask permission before driving to the hospital
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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Dec 20, 2010 16:52:18 GMT
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thing is many vehicles are already restricted in where they can go, the LEZ for instance, or roads banning 7.5 tonners or bus lanes or one way streets, no one is up in arms about those, anyone who complains about this is liable to get told to just buy a normal car, no one is forced to run a historic as a daily, and if you cant afford a classic AND a daily driver then why is that anyone elses problem, there is no legal right to own cars.
The government will be more interested in blanket regs across europe that make enforcement easy, not whos car is historic, simple fact is sometimes you just cant afford to have the hobby you want, i cant afford to fly planes so i don't.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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