HISTORIC STATUS URGENT

[kapri]

Well I'm sure many will remember the hoo hah of 2 or 3 months ago when everyone was going to start a website or print stickers , block off London with modified cars etc etc ?

Well surprisingly ( unless I missed it ?) none of that happened .

Meanwhile FIVA have released the FULL details of what they are pushing for as an across EU definition of Historic.

We consider it so important it is now on our landing page together with a link to a standard letter and details of how to find your MEP and then MP to harrass.


PLEASE take the time to read the following link and also follow it to FIVAs proposals IF this passes into legislation the modifying Historics is screwed.

www.the-ace.org.uk/

Your call, a few minutes of your time will help to preserve our future.

If you think ACEs viewpoint is curse word, fine not a problem ,feel free to ignore it . If however you are even concerned in the slightest tehn please do something about it rather than leaving it to others.

The EU legislators need to be made aware there IS an alternative view .

[BenzBoy]

I'll read the full FIVA proposal when I'm less exhauted, but I had a read of the ACE's outline of the plan. It doesn't seem good at all.

I'm quite active in writing to my local MP so I shall be contacting her about this, as well as my MEP.

However, I think we need to get a plan together as to what exactly we want our representatives to do.
Do we want a complete opt-out of any EU legislation? Or is there an alternative which we can point out to our representatives?

I'm not saying that we should be told what to think or say, but I think if we are going to drive it home to the politicians then it might be best if we are all singing from the same hymn sheet, so to speak!

[retrowagen1234]

My original letter that i sent (someone on here made a quick one and i sent it to my local MP (chris huhne) And ive been recieving letters every now and then saying its being passed onto so n so as a matter of urgancy, Signed by him... Seems like its been doing the rounds alright

Last i heard (IIRC) it was being passed to the minister for transport in Westminster...

[Battles]

Can someone re-post that letter or summarise the argument against this so that I can do another?

I don't want to write and just say "please don't do this because I think it's curse word", I know that the letter needs to give a reasoned argument to be taken seriously.

BenzBoy is right about having everyone singing from the same hymn sheet. Is a complete opt out the right thing, is it practical?

[diff]

I emailed the same letter to all local MEP's got 2 replies stating that they new nothing of it but would forward our concerns.

[Clamity]

Apr 22, 2011 20:11:21 GMT Battles said:

Can someone re-post that letter or summarise the argument against this so that I can do another?

I don't want to write and just say "please don't do this because I think it's curse word", I know that the letter needs to give a reasoned argument to be taken seriously.

I'd like to see the letter too, and if changes are going to happen I agree it's far better to have a large bunch of folk with a coherent argument.

What's the proposed alternative? Clearly the FIVA approach suits no-one on here, but being left alone is probably not the cards either now the gears are in motion over at the european parliament.

I can't believe the FBHVC don't have more to say either, seeing as this would appear to be strongly at odds with their mission statement and some of their recent lobbying activities.

[surprisingskoda]

Local elections are coming up here in a month, and one of my local candidates is a Lord now, previously was one of the few NI politicians that was an MP as well as an MLA.
So that means they'll actually reply if I bang off a letter now. Off to read it now. Ain't no-one telling me what I can and can't do to my property thanksverymuch.

[kapri]

The letter is linked on the ACE site , just fill in the MEP /MPs name and send it.

AS FIVA are working at EU level it is the MEPs that are our primary target.

The first thing is making sure they are aware there is an alternative view that is not being taken into account ( plus something like 11 countries from the EU that weren't included in any input into the FIVA survey ).

This should be enough to throw a spanner in the works and create the need for consultations across the EU .

[surprisingskoda]

In fact, having read that ACE page, this sets off alarm bells as to how it could seriously adversely affect the vintage car club I'm in, and indeed any club or individual involved in the competitive or regular use of an historic vehicle. That 'renovation' definition covers 95% of vintage cars on the road. There is an Alfa Monza that competes in the club events regularly, worth £1.5 million, that has had a new body made for it. I would not like to be the bureaucrat that tells Andy that his car is no longer 'valid'. It has some unrivaled 'substance' and 'heritage' too, having been previously driven by Enzo Ferrari. Not something I'd just write off, myself.

[BenzBoy]

Apr 22, 2011 20:51:36 GMT kapri said:

The letter is linked on the ACE site , just fill in the MEP /MPs name and send it.

AS FIVA are working at EU level it is the MEPs that are our primary target.

The first thing is making sure they are aware there is an alternative view that is not being taken into account ( plus something like 11 countries from the EU that weren't included in any input into the FIVA survey ).

This should be enough to throw a spanner in the works and create the need for consultations across the EU .

Great stuff, I'll get onto it. We have the opportunity to make a real difference to the future of our hobby.

[Anglia68]

Here's the link to ACES letter.

www.the-ace.org.uk/petition-letter-against-adoption-of-fiva-definition-of-historic-vehicle.html

[kapri]

Apr 22, 2011 20:56:50 GMT surprisingskoda said:

In fact, having read that ACE page, this sets off alarm bells as to how it could seriously adversely affect the vintage car club I'm in, and indeed any club or individual involved in the competitive or regular use of an historic vehicle. That 'renovation' definition covers 95% of vintage cars on the road. There is an Alfa Monza that competes in the club events regularly, worth £1.5 million, that has had a new body made for it. I would not like to be the bureaucrat that tells Andy that his car is no longer 'valid'. It has some unrivaled 'substance' and 'heritage' too, having been previously driven by Enzo Ferrari. Not something I'd just write off, myself.

The ACE team is on contact with FIVA direct , discussing the Charter but at the moment we are struggling to see what they are trying to achieve and their apparent lack of insight into the ACTUAL Historic vehicle movement rather than their perception at their level of it?

[robinmasters]

Who writes this rubbish?

"Renovation concentrates on a more or less exact imitation of a "factory-new" appearance...Vehicles or objects altered in this manner are in danger to loose [sic] their value as sources for cultural history."

So if a car isn't rusty to a degree consistent with it's age, leaking oil everywhere, and producing a plume of black smoke wherever it goes isn't historically important? So old churches shouldn't have stonework repaired where it is worn due to it's age? Paintings shouldn't be cleaned from time to time so that the original colours can still be seen?

This is nothing to do with allowing "future generations to enjoy these cultural treasures", it's abut getting older cars off the road. There is no other explanation for it. Museum pieces will be fine; keeping a 'historic' car on the road is going to become all but impossible if this goes through.

I've never written to an MP before, but will be doing so for the first time this evening.

[Paul H]

Apr 22, 2011 21:05:23 GMT kapri said:

The ACE team is on contact with FIVA direct , discussing the Charter

How are they reacting to a different view to their own?

Apr 22, 2011 21:05:23 GMT kapri said:

but at the moment we are struggling to see what they are trying to achieve and their apparent lack of insight into the ACTUAL Historic vehicle movement rather than their perception at their level of it?

Their view appears predominantly to be that of museum pieces, despite the many contradictions posed in their various articles & definitions.

[bozwell]

i had a read through and it just sounds totally bizzar. it seems to be aimed at the very historic very valuable cars and not run of the mill transport. since when has a Marina been of such importance that it will need to be repaired using the original methods and the repairs to be photographed and logged with the FIVA for future referance? it just sounds too odd

i work with Historic cars day in day out where we actually try to keep as much of the history and patina as possible. but then some of these cars are very important historically and extremly valuable. the proposal seems to be aimed at these cars that are famous for the racing drivers that drove them in period and some of the races they took part in. these cars have FIVA papers so they can continue to race. they have documented paperwork showing period brakes, suspension, engine etc.

are you sure wires aren't getting crossed somewhere?



also on your site i read that pre '73 cars don't need documented paperwork for an engine change? read here. is that correct? seems to fly in the face of the above proposal

[kapri]

Remember MEPs first, they are the ones currently being 'groomed' to accept this a truthful depiction of the Historic Movement.

[kapri]

Apr 22, 2011 21:19:33 GMT bozwell said:

I had a read through and it just sounds totally bizzar. it seems to be aimed at the very historic very valuable cars and not run of the mill transport. since when has a Marina been of such importance that it will need to be repaired using the original methods and the repairs to be photographed and logged with the FIVA for future referance? it just sounds too odd

I work with Historic cars day in day out where we actually try to keep as much of the history and patina as possible. but then some of these cars are very important historically and extremly valuable. the proposal seems to be aimed at these cars that are famous for the racing drivers that drove them in period and some of the races they took part in. these cars have FIVA papers so they can continue to race. they have documented paperwork showing period brakes, suspension, engine etc.

are you sure wires aren't getting crossed somewhere?



also on your site I read that pre '73 cars don't need documented paperwork for an engine change? read here. is that correct? seems to fly in the face of the above proposal

Difference is shown between DVLA NOT requiring it due to the UK CURRENT Historic regulations and 8 points modifications allowance. This IS in direct conflict with the FIVA PROPOSALS.

[Midas]

I've sent the letter to my MP and all four MEPs for my area.

[elmotheewokking]

Done for my MP and every MEP for the South East.
Will pass it on to the TDC forum too.

[retrowagen1234]

Cross posted over to mk1polo club