Restoration. Passion Vs Monetary Value

[stwat]

Edit,,,I posted this on a merc forum in response to yet another, 'its not worth it' thread. So, sorry if some of this doesn't seem current with this forum. Edit'''

We all here are car lovers. We simply wouldn't be here otherwise. When it comes to restoration and spending money, how many of us think of how much money we are spending on our cars compared to what the car will be worth in the future compared to what we have spent?

Restoring/moding cars is a passion. There is a lot of debate on this forum and all over the net about whether one car or another is worth restoring. One camp seems to be, it is not worth it, scrap it and find a much better car that will cost less in the long run.

The other camp, of which I have found myself in many times, is that restoring the car you have, or have found is much more pleasurable than giving up and having to look for another car in better condition. And the pleasure brought from restoring such a car far outweighs any financial incentive over how much said car will be worth in the future, no matter how much you have spent.

If there were no enthusiasts willing to take on such restorations then we would have no classic cars left apart from the mint 25 miles showroom cars that never turn a wheel. It takes people who have passion and not just people who look at a spreadsheet and see how much a certain car will be worth in so many years, so only that car is worth spending any money on.

The longevity of so many old and classic cars depends on passionate people who are not bothered how special a certain car is. Their passion for a 190D 2.0 for example and their passion to spend money on the car no matter what it may be worth 20 years down the line is the only way many classic cars get saved and preserved.

All cars no matter how mundane, or rare for that matter deserve the passion and dedication of their owners to preserve the cars and spend on them whatever is needed or not to keep them running.

EVO11 or 190, Sierra Cosworth 500 or Y reg 1300. All deserve to be looked after and restored in the same way.


Monetary value should never come into it, otherwise there would be no classic cars left for us to enjoy.

[mudbitz123]

well written from the heart that article
totally agree
only problem now is its more expensive to keep the restoration hobby alive but thanks to certain auction sites parts turn up at the right price
the best part of the thread mentions enthusiasts restoring what takes their fancy regardless of its rarity or special significance hence i just love to see cars modified from period classics into nigh on race track refugees
ive been into cars doing all sorts of mods good bad and otherwise but its been a lifetimes journey that as helped me overcome tragedy and bad things as the theraputic value is priceless.
spending money on old cars is personal choice but people spend lots more just on two weeks at costa lott etc

[keithyboy]

Absolutely! I spent a small fortune on a Capri 1.6LS once. Way more than it was worth. I wanted a project, I love Capris, I could only insure a 1.6 at the time. There's a thread on Detailing world at the moment buy a guy restoring a Merc 190E 2.3-16. He had to haul it Germany because no UK restorers would touch it. Someone asked why he was bothering when he could just have gone and bought a good one for less money. However, he'd owned it for years and had a real emotional attachment. I think if you do it yourself it's about the challenge as much as anything. Similar to those people who invest time and money in a masters degree that they have no plans to actually use.

[TurboDieselWeasel]

Hi!

There are two kinds (at least) of old-car-guys. One the one side those that use old cars as a way of life, those that made a intentional decision to use old cars. I found that those not rarely extend this decision way beyond cars; they do not throw away stuff just becaus it's old and not 'hip' anymore, use - for example - a old radio, old furniture etc. - against the grain of 'throw-away-society'. A way, a attitude of life.

On the other side are those that see old cars (and stuff) as a value. And as such they value a (old) car with strictly economic scales. Input, output, monetary gains are the main focus. It's not a way of life, it's more a addition, a investment that's nice to look at and will make the neighbours appreciate - as long as it promises to be profitable. An extension of the ego, maybe...

The latter will never 'get' the first. Or vice versa

And of course there is a huge intersection of those two extremes! But that seems to be the 'common' fragmentation of 'guys with old cars'. I myself am of the first extreme. And some of the second extreme don't understand - at all - why I don't want to sell my Mini even if they offer me 5000€. ;D

Cheers,
Jan

[waveman1500]

I can understand the idea of 'fixing up' a worthless old car to a usable standard and enjoying it, but when it comes to a true nut-and-bolt concours restoration, I think the head needs to rule over the heart. Properly done restorations almost always end up costing as much as a brand new car, and the cost doesn't vary much from model to model. So, if you're going to spend the money doing a proper restoration of a car, in my opinion you really should start with the ultimate version of that car, or the best you can possibly find. If a car really has huge sentimental value, then I don't see why you would want to fully restore it, as that just takes away the character that makes it what it is. Restore it sympathetically to a driveable condition, yes, but full restoration, no.

[Deleted]

My wife only asked me the other day when another parcel turned up for me ' how much is this car costing us' l just said no idea as l opened my ebay purchase like a child on Christmas day! and yes l have no idea, l haven't bothered to keep records as the cost has been spread over a long time. I've only got a Triumph Herald and other classic owners will always look upon it with disdain and it hold no real sentimental value, but it has now become an engineering exercise can l take these collection of parts from other cars and build a to me better car, and that's the thing l am building my own car how l like it and it will be unique so the cost is irrelevant

[86mike]

My thinking on this subject is that it is a hobby and hobbies cost money. If I were a snowboarder going around the world I wouldn't be thinking are these trips worth it would I. Its not the cash value of the car (or the trip) it's the fun have have doing it. You don't see someone who plays tennis keeping a running total of expenditure do you.

[curly89]

I agree with everything that has been touched on above. for me as it seems to be for many on here old cars are a way of life, they are different from the sea of euroboxes clogging the roads every day, people tell me "you should have been born 20 years ago" they say this because all i ever want own is old cars, what they don't understand is if i was born 20 years ago i would still own cars that are 20 odd years older than anything else on the road. i'm currently in the process of selling my Sierra a car ive known since i was 12 and owned for the last 3 years, talking in terms of cost based on the recipts ive got I'm going to make an epic loss if it sells. i don't car about the loss, i took that car from dry stored and un loved to clean retro daily...you can't put a price on that.

[waveman1500]

Some people here are talking about modifying cars, which is a completely different thing than restoring them. If you're modifying the car, go for it and do whatever you want, you will almost never get the money back on a modified car but you do it for fun so it doesn't matter. In terms of restoring cars to original specification, as the car isn't 'unique' then you can much more easily quantify it in dollar terms. As far as I'm concerned the two things are completely different endeavours.

[Clement]

Actually, we have the luck to be in a hobby that involves appreciation. Personally, I couldn't care less if I wasn't making money out of selling a car, I'd still be in it. It's nice to know that if I need money I could perhaps get some from there, but that's it.
As others said, some hobbies are just 'lost' money and not invested. They don't think too much about it, why should we?

[Deleted]

Cars are as personal and a part of my life as children and pets are for other people, they don't consider the economic worth of their fleshy companions so why should I do the same with my metal companions?

As Des and DeiselWeasel point out, there are those that like old things as a way of life and I'd put myself into that category. Prime example of this has to be furniture, which for me tends to involve a lot of free, very brown, very big furniture rather than doing what my parents have by going to Ikea to buy something that won't do what I want or look as nice. The same applies to my cars.

The Princess is a super comfortable barge that's never going to be worth less than I paid for her if I keep on top of the niggles a 32 year old Austin throws up and the Polo is a nippy little box of frogs that I have no intention or desire to sell, which means monetary worth is of no importance with it.

Even if it takes me decades to get both cars the way I want them, and even if other cars come along to fill up yet more space, I'll stick at them because I enjoy life with an old car. On paper, my decision makes no sense at all, but then neither does going out and getting finance on a brand new car that's depreciated as soon as you've signed your name to the forms.

If my needs change in the future, I'll just buy another old car to fill the gap and enjoy that in the same way I'm enjoying my current two.

[polo6n1600i]

I have always had older cars (upto recently) and always worked on them in my parents driveway - or handed it to a local garage if I couldnt manage it myself. Take my first car for example - A reg VW polo 1.1 cost £350 - maintenance and a few subtle mods over 2 years totalled over £2000 - value when I sold it £200. But the 2 years worth of memories with my new girlfriend (now the mrs) - the blast to and from college every day - are priceless!! thats why I always get so attached to my cars & always regret selling everyone of them!

[camerashy]

I have no idea how much money I've put into the Datsuns thus far, Ive kept all the receipts but I don't know now want to know how much I've spent, I'm having a hilariously awesome time doing it, my friends think my exploits restoring it are admirable, I get a kick in learning new skills and that's all that matters. If it's worth something at the end of it all, I'd like to think it's because I did it right and followed through with my vision, not because it's a 'good example' or because the market was more buoyant...

If you look at cars as a money thing, it loses all the fun and shine I think, if you look at them as a passion, a way to learn new things, a way to create something where kids point, drop their ice cream and say 'wow dad, what is that thing!?' then you're doing it right.

Like hell I'm ever selling her !

[DWDarkWheels]

All good responses here. Whether it's restoration or modification, it's definitely a passion.

Yes, I keep a running total of my projects, and constantly question why I'm spending money building a car when the same money could equally have bought me something else interesting.

But it's the low times in life that remind you life is for living, so passions are important. If I saved a load of money by not doing this project, I'd have more money in the bank, but I would be bored, and wouldn't have the challenge and satisfaction of seeing a car come together in the garage.

Despite the outlay on cars over the years, it has gone towards confidence and skills. These have enabled me to do some big DIY projects, which otherwise I'd have had to pay someone to do. So I reckon I'm even.

And I say all this as someone who has a 2012 Fiesta Zetec in the fleet. There was a time when I was mobile only by kitcars. Commuting practicalities prevailed, but "A boy's gotta have a hobby" is the best lesson my physics teacher taught me.

[SparksECM]

No idea how much any of my cars have cost me overall. I've had some amazing times, gained some of my best friends and made some awesome memories thanks to those pieces of metal. For that alone I owe them a debt that I cant ever really put a number on.

[Harold Ramp Bumface Fandango]

It's great to see people spend hundreds or thousands on 'run of the mill' old cars. If we went to shows and it was all just row upon row of Italian exotica, over-rated German tat and shiney MGs it'd be incredibly boring.

There are certain cars I never got on with back in the day but it's great to see things like Marinas, Chevettes, Renault 25s, Alpines etc at shows as they're something different and usually the owners are far more passionate about their cars than someone who's just bought a cheque book restoratian E-type just because they could.

[Deleted]

I drive a concrete truck to MAKE money... My cars are what i spend that money on, regardless if its a valuable car or not!
This is a difficult concept for a lot of people, as i get asked all the time why i spend money on the old bangers i have... Wich is annoying.

[jonw]

Sept 11, 2012 8:29:20 GMT 86mike said:

My thinking on this subject is that it is a hobby and hobbies cost money. If I were a snowboarder going around the world I wouldn't be thinking are these trips worth it would I. Its not the cash value of the car (or the trip) it's the fun have have doing it. You don't see someone who plays tennis keeping a running total of expenditure do you.

That sums up my view. I run and do up old bikes. Economy has never come into the equation beyond "can I afford this, this month?" or "how much can I blag for free?"

It's the pleasure of restoring and running old vehicles. The one sunny day when everything works is worth a £million!

[mdh]

If I'd saved what I've spent on cars, spares, tools and storage over the years I could probably have afforded a fleet of Countachs by now!

Would I be happier? Would I heck! (well maybe a little bit!) ;-)

[optima21]

I was toying with the idea of scrapping my cars under the scrappage scheme, but then realised that playing with old cars etc makes me who I am, so gave up on the idea. a nice new car would be fine until the novelty wore off, but then I think I'd have been missing my old wrecks (bearing in mind that Ive got 3 cars and last bought one in 2003). people don't get why I still run about in my mk2 polo, bearing in mind that even after a rebuild and having spent in excess of £1000 on it, it still looks like a wreck, even to the point of being insured for scrap value, because that is all its worth. If you can take monetary value out of things, the world can be a happier place.

at car shows people thought my mk2 polo was a trailer queen, as "how the hell did it make it here" with an engine bay like this



and after a bit of tidying up now looks like this (same engine in the same car)



with a nice and clean underside and yes it is rust free, was taken back to bare metal, with plenty of new metal welded in





and it still looks like a wreck as I roll in it.



now I'm back in the mood for working on my 13/60 Herald after a few years break.