Driving on water-H2O converter to H2 and O

[vasilami]

Anyone got blue prints for making such a generator ?

[cobblers]

It takes more energy (in the form of electricity) to extract hydrogen from water than you get out of the hydrogen. No matter how fancy the generator is, this is a simple law of chemistry/physics etc that cannot be broken.

The people that say it's worth trying are either stupid, deluded or trying to con you into handing over money.

Don't waste your time and money pursuing it, it's just not viable and never will be.

[bl1300]

I always think these are rather stupid. You split water to get hydrogen and oxygen using energy and then combine it again to get water to release energy.

I'm sorry but that sounds very much like trying to get something for nothing, and that in scientific terms is impossible.

[chairchild]

did the maths for this about 11 years ago.

You lose about 1/3 of the input energy, converting it - if you use chemically pure water, "perfect" parts,etc, etc



As above - people who think it works, are idiots, with no education

[andyborris]

However, always fancied a steam powered car.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelland_Engineering

[popuptoaster]

If you use waste heat or solar/wind/geothermal/tidal power to drive the conversion it can be done quite easily, the average household would need a lot of solar panels or wind turbines to make enough electricity though.

Its only a stupid idea if you have to pay to generate your electricity.

[bicyclerepairman]

Sure, but then you're just using hydrogen as energy storage, and the overall process is not very efficient. Less than 50%, which is much worse than batteries.

[mirafioriman]

I'm sure I read somewhere that a British company had managed to produce hydrogen that engines could run on and the production cost was 1-2p a litre. Not sure how accurate the article was. Perhaps it was an April fools joke?

[rob85]

Dec 22, 2012 19:11:59 GMT vasilami said:

Anyone got blue prints for making such a generator ?

It's called an electrolyser, it's what all nuclear submarines use to produce oxygen from sea water..

they're made by wellman defence in portsmouth.. I assume you've got a few million pounds going spare?

www.atmospherecontrolinternational.co.uk/products-services/product-range/oxygen-generation.aspx

hope this helps...

[popuptoaster]

Dec 23, 2012 13:09:23 GMT bicyclerepairman said:

Sure, but then you're just using hydrogen as energy storage, and the overall process is not very efficient. Less than 50%, which is much worse than batteries.

True, but lightweight batteries are expensive and still heavy and require either a specific electric vehicle or a heavily modded IC one one, less mods required to run a IC engine car on hydrogen, energy density isn't the whole story.

[mdh]

There's a few sets of plans floating around...not too hard to find.

The best I've seen suggests using hydrogen as a booster to normal fuel to improve mpg

[scaryoldcortina]

can I be really, really pedantic and point out that the equation is 2H₂O <=> 2H₂ + O₂ ?

Ta!

Also, 2nd law of thermodynamics.

[kabman]

Dec 23, 2012 15:25:42 GMT mirafioriman said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that a British company had managed to produce hydrogen that engines could run on and the production cost was 1-2p a litre. Not sure how accurate the article was. Perhaps it was an April fools joke?

True or not, how far do you think you could drive on 1 litre of hydrogen? That's about a balloon-ful. Enough to make a decent bang in chemistry lessons though

[dodgerover]

Dec 24, 2012 9:23:10 GMT kabman said:

Dec 23, 2012 15:25:42 GMT mirafioriman said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that a British company had managed to produce hydrogen that engines could run on and the production cost was 1-2p a litre. Not sure how accurate the article was. Perhaps it was an April fools joke?

True or not, how far do you think you could drive on 1 litre of hydrogen? That's about a balloon-ful. Enough to make a decent bang in chemistry lessons though

A litre of liquid Hydrogen? Thats going to be a strong balloon!

[mdh]

I thought you needed a lot less hydrogen to make the same bang as petrol?

[popuptoaster]

www.ehow.com/facts_5962164_power-hydrogen-vs_-gasoline.html

The Facts

According to the US Energy Information Administration, hydrogen has three times the power of gasoline by weight and has the highest energy content of any known fuel.

Downside

Liquid hydrogen has an extremely low density (0.07 grams per cubic centimeter). Hydrogen needs about four times the volume of gas in order to produce the same amount of energy.

Effects

Hydrogen fuel tank designers must find a way to safely compress hydrogen in order better compete with gasoline. A regular 15 gallon gas tank holds 90 pounds of gasoline. The same size tank would only hold about eight pounds of hydrogen.

Considerations

Hydrogen can be generated from renewable resources, including air and water, or it can be refined from non-renewable resources, such as fossil fuels. Should hydrogen be produced from fossil fuels, the resulting carbon emissions could offset the environment gains realized from clean-running hydrogen engines.

Significance

As of 2010, manufacturers cannot produce enough hydrogen, or hydrogen cars, to make it a more cost effective option over gasoline.

[ianboyd]

Dec 24, 2012 14:26:39 GMT popuptoaster said:

www.ehow.com/facts_5962164_power-hydrogen-vs_-gasoline.html

The Facts

According to the US Energy Information Administration, hydrogen has three times the power of gasoline by weight and has the highest energy content of any known fuel.

Downside

Liquid hydrogen has an extremely low density (0.07 grams per cubic centimeter). Hydrogen needs about four times the volume of gas in order to produce the same amount of energy.

Effects

Hydrogen fuel tank designers must find a way to safely compress hydrogen in order better compete with gasoline. A regular 15 gallon gas tank holds 90 pounds of gasoline. The same size tank would only hold about eight pounds of hydrogen.

Considerations

Hydrogen can be generated from renewable resources, including air and water, or it can be refined from non-renewable resources, such as fossil fuels. Should hydrogen be produced from fossil fuels, the resulting carbon emissions could offset the environment gains realized from clean-running hydrogen engines.

Significance

As of 2010, manufacturers cannot produce enough hydrogen, or hydrogen cars, to make it a more cost effective option over gasoline.

If I remember correctly, wasn't the whole idea of using hydrogen, was rather than burn it like petrol, but use it as part of a battery, is that not what fuel cell technology was?

Edit there are quite a few hydrogen powered vehicles out there already, busses and forklifts in the main

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell_vehicle

[jasonb360]

Not to mention that even if you had a plentiful source of hydrogen and are able to store it effectively, it is not a trivial matter to get a hydrogen IC engine running well. It isn't as simple as just chucking lpg or propane into an engine, there are quite a few complications with pre-ignition.

[ahebron]

Browns gas?

Adrian

[mdh]

Dec 24, 2012 16:46:58 GMT jasonb360 said:

Not to mention that even if you had a plentiful source of hydrogen and are able to store it effectively, it is not a trivial matter to get a hydrogen IC engine running well. It isn't as simple as just chucking lpg or propane into an engine, there are quite a few complications with pre-ignition.

Such as? Hydrogen burns far more quickly so needs igniting around tdc. Converting an engine to hydrogen is relatively simple.

The bigger problem is that hydrogen is corrosive to most metals, so pistons, heads, valves etc all need coating to protect them.