Parking on your own property?

[mattfletcher]

Hi, guys, in a bit of a pickle, well not really because we'll just tell them to do one.

Right, my mom owns her house with amicable parking to the front (for many years). The driveway is 2 cars long and 3 cars wide, at the minute there are five cars on it. One under a cover, 3 are my parents and one is one of mine which I interchange regularly with a choice of three. Now the neighbours are getting arsey about it and reported my mom to the council. The cars are all in reasonable condition and 4 out the 5 are still taxed insured and moted. I'm not trading from the property or even working on any of them on the property, all cars are merely parked on their, whaty is grounds do the council have to do anything?? My main reply is obviously do one as its private property.......

[VIP]

Can you clarify exactly what they are getting arsey about? Is the driveway shared with a neighbour at all?

[composimmonite]

Got Tee shirt for this.
"At the end of the day" I found out it's the "opinion" of any planning officer who views the property to say whether he considered there are too many cars. I had 5 in the drive and council complained out the scrap ones and said they would be getting a removal order if I didn't do something about it myself. I rang up and told them the scrap cars were actually a 1956 Austin A35 and a 1966 Volvo Amazon that were 100% legal so I'd be parking them on the road if they required me to comply. Seems they had been told I was keeping scrap cars and hadn't even bothered to drive by and look. They assumed the cars were rotten old Escorts and similar - not road legal classics.
The key point it that it's the opinion of a planning officer and not law that the council try to use to frighten you. I'm not saying there isn't legal ways they can use as well but initially they try it on to see what happens.
Basically if they contact you explain the situation - road legal cars that will be parked on the road outside neighbours houses (perfectly legal as long as not blocking driveways) if the insist you clear the drive. If they then start to get officious ask them to let you know in writing the section of the Town and Country Planning Act they specifies the number of cars you can have at a property and under which they intend using to take action against yourself. FWIW the Town and Country Planning Act doesn't say anything but is the law they have to work under hence the "opinion" of planning officer if any doubt but that isn't easily enforcable.

Good luck.

paul h

[dodgerover]

The next property i buy is going to be on as big a block of land as i can possibly get the bank to afford with no neighbours in sight!

More accurately what Paul said sounds right ^^^

[chris3]

What is written is a fair guide, it can only ever be an opinion of the Council, noting that there is a big difference between an officers opinion and one that has been endorsed by Councillors. The officers should take reference from case law - that's how our system is based, the number deemed appropriate will change depending on circumstances.

For instance, I've read case law that talks about 6 vehicles as being a 'material change of use' - hence either an application or removal is required. Typically the 6 vehicles concerned an urban location - say central London where vehicles are off the road but visible in the street.

In more rural locations I have defended 10 or 12 vehicles as reasonable for hobby use.

A lot depends on circumstance, tidy/stacked and broken etc. Certainly 4 or 5 taxed cars would be additional to those off the road for Hobby use in my opinion. Think of it a different way - you can take a 3 bed house and lawfully use it for 5 people as a house share with no change of use in planning terms - 5 people would equal up to 5 cars?

[mattfletcher]

I believe the neighbours claim it looks like a scrap yard, which is not the case. If the below works it looks like this but without the van and in between the red car and blue car there is another.
maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

The council came out years ago because at that time, I was hobbying down there and my mates used to fill the street with their cars but now I only go down there to have my tea and sunday lunch. The council came as apparently I was operating a business. I explained they were all my cars and heard nothing else. I've told my mom to ask them what legislation states how many cars shes allowed to have on the drive and if he can't give a legislation to tell him to do one. If I have to move them, like said above I will just park them on the road, they cant have it both ways.

[mattfletcher]

That link didnt work, try this
www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=4476004068379&set=pb.1538298649.-2207520000.1373829599.&type=3&theater

[composimmonite]

There is an EU law (can't remember exactly which one) that basically says you are entitled to live your life the way you want and just because other people don't like it then as long as you aren't breaking anything like polution, waste, noise etc rules then you SHOULD be left alone. It is the law that "travellers" use. That doesn't mean there isn't other things that can be done by councils but just like foreign criminals with a pet dog etc can't be deported because Hunman Rights say they are entitled to a familly life then the same applies to everybody.
I admitted to the council my problem was I'm untidy and asked them to help me by letting me know what was unacceptable and what I needed to do to conform. That didn't mean I wasn't going to fight but at least told me what aspect they found conflicting when comparing my property to neighbours. They then got me a council lock-up promptly when I have previously been told there was years and years waiting list ! BTW I live on a corner with roads on three sides so only one direct neighbour who is the local vicar. He couldn't care less and we get on great but found out it was a busy body a hundred yards away who doesen't even need to pass my property as their driveway is in another road that was causing all the trouble for me. Turns out their son is a planning officer and was using his influence to get his collegues to pester me. I made an informal complaint to head of planning office, found out no record had been made about vists to me and it was a case of if I'd made a formal complaint then the smelly stuff would have hit the fan for those involved. Haven't heard a dicky bird from them in years after that !

paul H

[soretro]

Option move to South Africa and you can have as many cars as you like even if they are unlicensed and scrap,and if the municipality says anything you tell them you work on them for a living and they are taking away your human right to earn a living,and they never bug you again.

[Copey]

as long as the cars aren't getting in the way of any public access areas and they can't be considered an "eyesore" i really doubt the council will do much more than come round and go "errm, ok, no problem!"

could see if being a different story if they were all old rotters or you were working on them all the time, i'd just go through the motions tbh, highly doubt anythin will come of it

[trouble]

Photos don't work

Do you know who reported this 'issue'?

If so, go and speak to them

[joem83]

If them being on the drive is causing problems, park the legal ones all over the road for a week.

[flat4fanatic]

The council have a duty to look into any complaint wether they believe it's viable or not.
Some neighbours obviously getting whingy - probably said they're scrap cars or similar. Just make sure it's tidy and the non-road legal one is clean or wrapped under a cover then there's very little they can do.

[Deleted]

get a dirty great big winnbago and park that there or a big old caravan

[composimmonite]

Jul 15, 2013 14:10:18 GMT nightmaresracing said:

get a dirty great big winnbago and park that there or a big old caravan

A couple of neighbours complained about another who was a self employed satelite installer during the early days of SKY. Council said as long as he didn't have customers calling and didn't keep stock in the house, garage or shed then there was nothing they could do. He then bought a dirty big heap of a Dodge van and parked in promanently on the front lawn to use as a store

Paul H

[Davenger]

Jul 15, 2013 14:10:18 GMT nightmaresracing said:

get a dirty great big winnbago and park that there or a big old caravan

Buy a tank!
They won't give you any trouble then

[sowen]

A Scammell would do a good job of obliterating people's views, yet still be a perfectly normal vehicle to have parked on the drive!

[mattfletcher]

Well, the council came out today, they said we can park as many as we want there as long as we're not operating a business, he also said that you can park across someones dropped kerb as long as their car is not on the drive, as if it is on the drive its classed as an obstruction. He said they had complained about the dog barking at 2am in the morning, which is due to him having his milk delivered at that time. LOL. My mom then proceeded to let her rotweiller in the house to show how fierce she actually was and how much she actually barks, seems the councillor was content stroking her. The bin gets left blocking the shared arch way to the rear, which it does for a few hours, not days like the neighbour had claimed. Basically he said the neighbour was making fuss over nothing and has told my mom to report him to the police and is going to tell the neighbour he's advised my mom to report him to the police, because apparently he punched my dad in the face.

[ben711200]

I'd strongly recommend not parking across someone else's drive, even when they aren't in. It's about as inconsiderate as you can get and something I have a constant battle with at my home.. You should never have to ask permission to access your own drive! Most of us aren't lucky enough to live away from other people so the best we can do is live as considerately as possible and encourage others to do the same.

The key to your problem clearly isn't the cars on the drive, it's an ongoing issue with that neighbour. If you (or your parents) have to carry on living next to them then you need to work on your relationship with that person and figure out what the basis of their upset really is. Finding ways to wind them up whilst technically being within the law is going to be counter productive.


Sorry, it's really something of a sore point for me at the moment...

[mattfletcher]

I know where you're coming from, there is a school less than 100 metres away, so used to live constantly with parking problems during school runs, but recently (3-4 years) we have had no problems. My main concern was the legal right to actually park on our own property, as if there was a problem I would of been in a bit of trouble for parking. My point would be to show how extreme it can get for the neighbour, my mom does not want to escalate the problem which is why he's still got his jaw, he's lucky my brother doesn't know about him hitting my dad. Personally I would report him to the police just like he reported us to the council, but my mom doesnt want to.