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Hey y'all.
I've bought this Boxster thing. It's all MOT'd and legal as of today. Yay!
But, it has been heavily t-boned in the past and has been damaged at the front end. It wasn't fixed very well though.
I'm toying with the idea of buying a stripped shell off the bay and swapping my running gear over. I'm not looking to cover up it's rather chequered history, more to make it straighter and safer.
Does anyone know the definite legalities around this - and if there are any options?
Please don't reply with "I think" answers, or "That would be ringing" - I'm looking at doing it legally or not at all. The web is full of discussion on this without a definitive answer.
Thanks all.
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'83 GTM Coupe. 4A-GE Powered
'00 GTM Libra Auto. Ick.
'71 Detomaso Pantera. Current Resto
'89 GMC Safari Tow/Kip bus
'05 SAAB 9-3 Daily
'71 Siva Moonbug. Not even contemplating resto yet.
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NEW (with proof) shell keep original ID no problems all legal. Used shell + not enough bits of donor to retain that's ID = Q plate + possibly an IVA?
If its really that bad I'de buy a front cut and stitch that on assuming you are competant enough to unpick the manufacturers welds and replicate everything putting it back. Alternatively get what you have jigged?
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Rich G
Posted a lot
Keyboard Worrier
Posts: 1,059
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Buy a straight shell with a V5C, put all the running gear etc. from your current Boxster into it and it will be fine, you will have a good straight car with the identity of the replacement shell.
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What about sourcing a stripped rolling shell that has suspension, steering & axles and transplanting your interior , bumpers, wings, doors, and such that have no DVLA points together with the engine and gearbox. That would be 100% within DVLA rules as long as you use the rolling shell identity and inform them of engine change. Surplus parts can then be sold of offset the higher cost of a rolling shell compared to a bare shell. A stolen / recovered rolling shell might be worth considering even if it's a CAT C or D
Paul H
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I have no idea, but shell's arent a bad price: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-PORSCHE-986-BOXSTER-SHELL-UNDAMAGED-SALVAGE-LAPIS-BLUE-/161027134831?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item257df7156fI would just swap everything over and not worry to much about it providing the shell is the same model/spec. That said, legally it should be declared & probably q plated. But from a safety point of view, a good straight shell with all the parts from another car is safer than a bent shell with all the correct parts fitted. I would also get everything painted white and fit the facelift front, just because I like white Porsches lol.  I don't see what difference it makes using parts from another car, as long as your not trying to pass the end result off as a newer car. |
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Last Edit: Aug 3, 2013 23:21:58 GMT by joem83
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A bit more depth is in order here methinks. dodgerover. I'm a northern tightbutt so I'm not buying a new shell - or looking at a "Q". I'd stay as I am if that was the case. Front cut won't help, the main damage is down the driver's side. Jigging won't help, it runs straight, but trim doesn't fit around the b-post for example. Thanks for the input tho. rich G. It appears that the DVLA points system applies - a bare shell isn't enough - only 5 points from minimum 8. In this case, with a bit of twiddling I can get a 5 year newer car, worth a lot more money, with a clear history. I'm not saying it's not possible and entirely legal, but that's not how our (insert expletive) laws usually work - something for nothing? Surely not? paul. I think this is poss the best idea - extra bits like suspension add points to the score. I think I'd be best leaving it till next year so that I don't lose a year of MOT on the current chassis. It'll give me time to shake it down too. |
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'83 GTM Coupe. 4A-GE Powered
'00 GTM Libra Auto. Ick.
'71 Detomaso Pantera. Current Resto
'89 GMC Safari Tow/Kip bus
'05 SAAB 9-3 Daily
'71 Siva Moonbug. Not even contemplating resto yet.
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mikeymk
Part of things
'85 Polo Coupe S 1.6 16v
Posts: 931
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Buy a straight shell with a V5C, put all the running gear etc. from your current Boxster into it and it will be fine, you will have a good straight car with the identity of the replacement shell. That's what i did with my Polo. To me it's the same car, especially since it carries a personalised registration anyway. But the DVLA are happy the old one is scrapped and this one is a different car. The only difference to me is this registration document says it was first registered in 1985 and the old one said it was first registered in 1988.. whatever, same car to me. Yet it's an original car with it's original ID. So yeah, you effectively scrap the car and buy another car - you just put your old air freshener in along with one or two other bits! Mine has modifications carried over which are declared, so whilst it was originally registered as 1272cc it's now registered as 1598cc. Most of it stays loyal to the original design though, so the DVLA are happy it's still the same car within the limits. This isn't relevant in your case but the engine/gearbox codes are, and you'll have to declare the change of numbers - but as you're fitting direct replacements like-for-like it won't go against you, it's just to update the details and logbook. |
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You want this painted white? Who are you? Chris Evans?   |
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'83 GTM Coupe. 4A-GE Powered
'00 GTM Libra Auto. Ick.
'71 Detomaso Pantera. Current Resto
'89 GMC Safari Tow/Kip bus
'05 SAAB 9-3 Daily
'71 Siva Moonbug. Not even contemplating resto yet.
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Last Edit: Aug 3, 2013 23:41:20 GMT by joem83
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mikeymk
Part of things
'85 Polo Coupe S 1.6 16v
Posts: 931
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I think white washes out a lot of the Boxster's shape, and that's a real shame. Silver is a great colour for these, the original concept car was a silver base, it's very much a Porsche colour and though still very light i think it brings out the best in them.  |
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zero
Part of things
Posts: 64
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MG boys use heritage shells and transfer everything over and have you ever seen a fully restored MG using one of these shells on a q plate ? How many rally cars that were smashed to bits still seem to be driving around not on q plates .
This is shady area because of the law . In my mind a panel or a full shell new or used is just another component just use your common sense and don't publicise whet you are up to ( Too late ! ) Not because is wrong but because you neb know who is reading these threads .
What is wrong is not saying when you sell something that it was reshelled , anyone with any sense would make their own minds up . Traditionalists may baulk but i refer to the above escorts and MGs .
I was speaking to a restorer of a certain mark who is stockpiling late shells because he said that in a few years time the cars that were considered saveable will have been done and panels nos or second hand will have dried up people will turn to he saved shells to fix the cars as there will be no choice . We also talked about several cars that had been reshelled this way which were done quietly yet are revered in magazines and by the scene .
Doc.
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 I'm not really new I'm Doc but lost my log in? |
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Do what Joe said, that ebay link looks ideal for a conversion, other than that (depending on the damage) the only other option is to fix what you've got, which by the sounds of it involves removing the qtr and replacing the b pillar?? All depends how much you value your original car and wether its worth repairing it or reshelling it.
A Porsche is definetly going to be my next car, white looks gorgeous, I also had that orange one on my ebay watch list....
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MG boys use heritage shells and transfer everything over and have you ever seen a fully restored MG using one of these shells on a q plate ? How many rally cars that were smashed to bits still seem to be driving around not on q plates . This is shady area because of the law . In my mind a panel or a full shell new or used is just another component just use your common sense and don't publicise whet you are up to ( Too late ! ) Not because is wrong but because you neb know who is reading these threads . What is wrong is not saying when you sell something that it was reshelled , anyone with any sense would make their own minds up . Traditionalists may baulk but I refer to the above escorts and MGs . I was speaking to a restorer of a certain mark who is stockpiling late shells because he said that in a few years time the cars that were considered saveable will have been done and panels nos or second hand will have dried up people will turn to he saved shells to fix the cars as there will be no choice . We also talked about several cars that had been reshelled this way which were done quietly yet are revered in magazines and by the scene . Doc. Heritage shell is a new shell so there's no issue with a 'q' plate as long as you have an original ID to start with. As a side note I was once told MG's were the second most rung vehicles (for tax exempt status) after VW's and before landrovers |
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if you want to keep the same ID, then you have 2 options:
1) repair the shell
2) buy a heritage shell
end of
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You're like a crazy backyard genius! |
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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mikeymk
Part of things
'85 Polo Coupe S 1.6 16v
Posts: 931
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^^ It will all be original spec, which is the point. Axles, steering, suspension, all original spec and correct for that car.
Stuff like steering racks and suspension 'axles' are wear parts and are often changed throughout a car's life, doesn't mean it's not original as long as it's a part replaced like-for-like and not of a different design.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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^^ It will all be original spec, which is the point. Axles, steering, suspension, all original spec and correct for that car. Stuff like steering racks and suspension 'axles' are wear parts and are often changed throughout a car's life, doesn't mean it's not original as long as it's a part replaced like-for-like and not of a different design. In case you missed it. |
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mikeymk
Part of things
'85 Polo Coupe S 1.6 16v
Posts: 931
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Yes, second hand chassis/monocoque/frame. The monocoque bodyshell, in this case. The donor bodyshell, we're saying, will have it's original ID and therefore the final car will have it's original chassis/monocoque/frame.
Yes, everything from the dashboard to the wiper motor will be replaced, but they're not counted, just like all the other wear parts. It will be an original shell, with original ID, and will be within permissed boundaries the original specification/trim (you do not have to inform the DVLA if you change the colour of the seats, or give the car a major service, blah blah). The engine/gearbox will be to the original spec within permissale boundaries, the numbers will be different but they will be of the same spec and considered direct replacements for repair purposes. It will be considered an original car and qualify for the original ID to that bodyshell.
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MikeyMK, VIP is correct....if you want to keep the ID of the donor shell then it must also retain enough of the original parts to keep it within eight points. Five points for the unmodified shell (monococque) and then three points retained from any combination of suspension/steering/axles etc...from THE SAME car.
Sure, if you were to buy a Boxster bodyshell with a V5c and retro fit everything from your own nigh on identical car into it, then it's unlikely that anyone can tell just by looking (bar things with specific identities like the engine), but it doesn't make it legal, whichever way you spin it.
The law is there to stop people making newer cars look older (free road tax) or older cars look newer (more valuable cars) but it's still the law.
I would happily do a 'bodyswap' with a complete set of mechanical parts from another identical car and keep the ID of the new shell if it warranted it. Engine number and possible colour change aside, no one would ever know (unless I made it public) but that wouldn't make it legal. I have actually done this with a friend, a complete driving, mechanically perfect car with lots & lots of rot, driven into my unit and stripped 100% back to a bare shell. The mint 'donor' car then driven into the unit and also stripped to a bare shell before fitting literally everything (bar the windscreen) from the original car. All done from start to finish in a weekend. To make it strictly legal, the steering and suspension would have to have been retained, but my friend wanted the whole lot swapped, so I helped him do it.
Like I say, no one will ever know if they look at the car, but that doesn't mean it's 100% legal with regards to retaining the ID of the shell. And that's a fact, not just speculation regardless of how many times people have done it over the years.
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So in theory if you buy a car, then say over 20 years of ownership you replace all the suspension parts and all the steering parts and various body panels etc, as all these parts are liable to wear and tear. With parts sourced from ebay or scrap yards you should inform the DVLA so they can re-register your car on a Q plate? You'd still have the same shell but replaced the engine, suspension, steering, lights. I don't see how buying a shell with I.D. and building it back up is illegal. If we're talking about buying a second hand shell and swapping everything over then putting the orange Boxster Registration on the new second hand shell, well yea, you cant do that
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