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Oct 13, 2015 22:36:35 GMT
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It must be a new item issued recently. I haven't read any updates this month. Hi, they could always use the one they use for measuring excessive corrosion within 300mm of a suspension mounting. Colin That's a set distance though (a 30cm ruler!) and not a precise measurement, if the tester is in doubt if it is 300mm he should advice.
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insig
Part of things
Posts: 32
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So if tyres nor wheels have markings how do you fail them? You don't, however if you read my original post, I said that if (and it's a big if) the tyres were marked with a maximum width and you can see the maximum width that is marked on the wheels, then the tyres are not fitted in accordance with their sidewall instructions. As for the tape measure, did I mention that it was calibrated? - no, I didn't. I said that it was part of the standard equipment that a lot of companies provide on a tool board. I use it for measuring prescribed areas and to get an idea of bush diameters and lengths of cuts in tyres. You can't measure the rim width with a tape measure anyway as it's the width between the beads that you need, not the over all outside width. Other non calibrated stuff that I have access to are a tyre triangle for assessing the centre 75% of a tyre and occasionally a tyre pressure gauge It seems that people read what they want to, make wrong assumptions and then go off at a tangent based on these wrong assumptions.
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is this the current mot tool board?
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
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curse word, I've been going wrong all these years. Here's mine. Sorry, I know I'm being silly. Whenever these threads pop up it all gets a bit repetitive, there's never new information and it sits there for a couple of weeks falling to the bottom waiting for its new identical friend to appear a couple of weeks later. Anything you use, buy or install has to adhere to the manufacturers specification. Always. If you're in a position where you feel you need the data but can't find it then you're almost certainly near dodgy ground and need to pursue it to make sure you stay safe and those around you will also be. If you think you know more than the people who designed, tested, met regulations and brought the product to market, then... heh.
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Oct 14, 2015 11:34:45 GMT
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Hi, they could always use the one they use for measuring excessive corrosion within 300mm of a suspension mounting. Colin That's a set distance though (a 30cm ruler!) and not a precise measurement, if the tester is in doubt if it is 300mm he should advice. What's a set distance if it isn't a precise measurement? If I was to challenge the distance between corrosion and mounting he should be able to prove it to me. with say a ruler which he could use to measure the wheel. As stretched tyres is not an MOTable item any judgement as to being dangerous is subjective. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just saying it has to be defined somehow. Which is what the authorities are trying to do. Colin
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Last Edit: Oct 14, 2015 11:36:33 GMT by colnerov
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TS
Part of things
Posts: 558
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As with all things then ... within reason.
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That seems like a positive thing, right? At least now there's a guide on the .Gov website with a nice DVSA badge in the corner to settle any arguments at the side of the road.
Unless that's not "enough" stretch for the guys who like stretch? Sorry, I'm a bit ignorant of the style.
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so there it is in black and white.
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Stretch chineses budget tyres on Chinese rep wheels and see the police get China to accept write anything lol
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The comment worth noting is "Another thing to note is that the driver of a vehicle with narrow tyres on wide rims may find that their insurance is invalid in the event of a claim." as I suspect now Police have something to pursue if they can't find fault with the actual tyre fitment - ie has owner notified their insurer ?
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
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that clarifies nothing. its the usual wishy-washy 'if unsure pass and advise' stance. so unless you present a car with actual numerical figures on the tyres and wheel that contradict each other, any tester who knows the rules should pass it.
not that it matters anyway as if they were trying to do you for it they'd ignore the MOT regulations as they mean next to nothing, and go straight for a C+R infringement (and the heavier punishments it carries).
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faker
Part of things
novanut
Posts: 271
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[/quote] What's there not to understand... A minor stretch doesn't really cause any issue, and will fall within the tolerances mentioned previously in certain tyre and rim fitment charts. The problems are with regard to Severely stretched tyre fitments. There is no exact or specIfied rules to adhere to, granted, but common sense plays a big part. When cornering tyre sidewalls flex and squirm. Severely stretched tyres don't flex correctly. Under cornering the marginal squirm causes the outer wall to roll away from the bead, and the inner wall to square or true itself up. This can and has caused tyre beads to come away from the rim bead (break the seal). This can and has happened, deflating the tyre instantly. The result is worse than suffering a blow out, as the rim will most likely make contact with the ground and the vehicle will have little or no steering when this occurs. The offence for driving on severely stretched tyres is indeed using a vehicle in a dangerous condition. A court will simply rely on the evidence from an expert witness (trained officer) who with photographs in court, prove that severely stretched tyres are dangerous. I personally don't like stretched tyres. I especially don't like it when the rims protrudes past the wheel arch!! I have seen stretched tyres fail on the road. Frowned upon for a reason folks. Roll the dice and take your chances.
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In a few year time we will look back on stretched tyres and say to ourselves "WTF we people thinking by doing that". Very much the same as we look back on flared trousers of 1970's - all the fashion then but a joke today. Over the years I have seen many "trends" in vehicle modifications that very few have survived more than a few years and I reckon stretched tyres will go the same way - either by rules / legislation or people simply moving onto other ideas. This all part and parcel of vehicle ownership and putting your own mark - it happened to my (old foggie) generation and will happen to future generations as well.
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This all part and parcel of vehicle ownership and putting your own mark - it happened to my (old foggie) generation and will happen to future generations as well. Yup, it is awesome... seeing what is going to happen next.
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A correctly seated tyre What an unacceptable stretched tyre looks like We’ll give you an extreme example in this case. The side of the tyre bead (1) is exposed and the lower edge of the tyre bead (2) is sealed on the rim where (1) should be. This is because the tyre is over-stretched. When this happens, the vehicle should be rejected for the tyre being incorrectly seated on the wheel rim. Where this isn’t obvious, the nominated tester should pass and advise. Another thing to note is that the driver of a vehicle with narrow tyres on wide rims may find that their insurance is invalid in the event of a claim.
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Last Edit: Nov 5, 2015 13:09:19 GMT by joem83
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For what it's worth we once fitted Continental tyres to a Mk6 Fiesta for a feature - Continental supplied the tyres FOC for the feature, and we asked for them to be a 'bit stretched'. I can't recall the amount of stretch although it wasn't a crazy amount, it was definitely a stretch. Continental had no issue with supplying them. Last year this was on the Toyo Tire stand at SEMA SEMA 2014 by Retro Rides, on Flickr However if CPS goes via the 'recommendations' from the tyre company I think you'd have a difficult time in court. Unless you can get a tyre manufacturer to stick their neck on the line and back up the use of stretched tyres (I'd also be inclined to ask first "how stretched", 195/50 on an 8" wheel is different to 205/45 on a 9" wheel) There was a thread on edition 38 some time back where someone posted up one of the manufacturers recommended fitting guidelines for a particular tyre size. It was 195/45-something. The widest width rim they would suggest to use on was 8" so there's still a usable amount of stretch. The poster said that similar guidelines should be available from other tyre manufacturers if you emailed them. And now I've read the rest of the thread I see my post is totally pointless because the lad has already posted in here
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Last Edit: Nov 5, 2015 23:48:43 GMT by roccoguy
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Nov 13, 2015 14:40:45 GMT
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Nankang have just posted this on their website: European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation – Standards Manual – 2015 www.nankangtyre.co.uk/images/pdf/ETRTO-Approved-Rims.pdfI would assume the police are allowed to use that as a legal guide. If your inside the law, print a copy out and keep it in the car
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Last Edit: Nov 13, 2015 14:43:33 GMT by joem83
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Nov 13, 2015 17:51:09 GMT
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Nankang have just posted this on their website: European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation – Standards Manual – 2015 www.nankangtyre.co.uk/images/pdf/ETRTO-Approved-Rims.pdfI would assume the police are allowed to use that as a legal guide. If your inside the law, print a copy out and keep it in the car Useful. I doubt it would be a 'legal guide' but it would however be a handy thing to waggle under the nose of a grumpy policeman. Having said that - I suspect that any car that falls within those guidelines will not raise the eyebrows of the law, as they go as far as a mild stretch (from the size combinations I have experience of) If there's any giddy stretches on there I'd be surprised. My tyres are at the limit of their recommendations, and although there is a noticeable stretch it's not a daft amount. I would imagine that only 'extreme' stretches are the issue here, not moderate ones.
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markbognor
South East
Posts: 9,968
Club RR Member Number: 56
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Nov 15, 2015 12:51:08 GMT
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I can see Nangkan sales falling off as this spreads!
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