|
|
|
During the stop thw officer had a chart which showed European tyre to rim width nominal sizes. My wheels were too wide for the tyre according to the officer’s chart. Interesting that Police now have thought it necessary to issue a chart, although flawed, stating the reason to stop / charge somebody for stretch tyres. Hi, yes indeed interesting. DVSA obviously don't like stretched tyres, but with no definite rule like 'Thou shalt not roll with stretch tyres' they're getting their ducks in a row by going with manufacturers recommendations. They're probably waiting for someone to bite and go to court to contest it, where they can get some precedent from case law. They can't get that if people plead guilty as the cheaper option. So be careful, don't end up walking into a minefield. Colin
|
|
|
|
|
qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,410
Club RR Member Number: 52
|
|
|
I believe a chap on edition38 went to court about his stretched tyres, it may well be the chap who has vommented on here. He had managed to get a hold of the reccomended wheel widths from the tyre manufacturer, he took that to court and won.
Edit: Had a quick look for the thread but couldn't find it. It was quite long.
|
|
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2015 9:33:23 GMT by qwerty
|
|
Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
|
|
|
i got stopped by a traffic copper a few years ago who tried to do me for (amongst other things) stretched tyres. they were a mild stretch on a very low profile, something like 215/35R18 on a 8.5" rim. might have been 205s. the tyres in question were TOYO proxies T1-R, and i used a table found on the toyo website here- www.toyo.co.uk/tire/pattern/proxes-t1-r(click on the specification tab and it opens a popup) to prove him wrong, and that they were within manufacturers specifications, albeit at the top end of them. problem is a lot of manufacturers just don't publish this information. I'm currently trying to find the recommended wheel width for a 215/30R20 nankang NS2 or NS20, and even their own website doesnt tell you.
|
|
|
|
MK2VR6
Posted a lot
Mk2 Golf GTi 90 Spec
Posts: 3,328
|
|
|
VOSA don't exist anymore, it's now the DVSA. Page 32 here: www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/25/pdfs/uksi_20010025_en.pdfHas the relevant section: 4. Each tyre fitted to the vehicle shall be of a nominal size appropriate to the wheel to which it is fitted. Edited to add that tyre manufacturers list a range of wheel widths that their tyres are suitable for. With regard to the MOT test, some tyres may be marked pn the sidewall with the maximum width wheel that they can be fitted to and wheels are usually marked with their width. If that's the case when I'm testing a car, I'll fail it under section 4.1.1f f. a tyre not fitted in compliance with the manufacturers sidewall instruction. This is the problem I had at MOT time. I then discussed it with other MOT testers, who quietly pointed out that they didn't have an instrument, let alone a calibrated one, to measure the width of the wheel rim. Therefore they couldn't make judgements on tyre width vs. rim width. It's not an MOT fail.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 10:13:02 GMT
|
I then discussed it with other MOT testers, who quietly pointed out that they didn't have an instrument, let alone a calibrated one, to measure the width of the wheel rim. Therefore they couldn't make judgements on tyre width vs. rim width. It's not an MOT fail. problem is a lot of manufacturers just don't publish this information. I'm currently trying to find the recommended wheel width for a 215/30R20 nankang NS2 or NS20, and even their own website doesnt tell you. These two nuggets of information would probably be the starting point of my defence if I was questioned on it. What are Plod/DVSA/The CPS/The Fiscal going to compare it to when judging safe or not and where's the scale showing too much stretch vs permissible stretch. Think about exhaust noise - they can measure that in a standardised way and tell you if it's permissible or not. In some respects they're bound by these rules as much as we are. It used to be a thing in Central Scotland (and other places too, I'm sure) to pull you over for accelerating too quickly and I think a lot of guys accepted some sort of fixed penalty but then guys started mentioning on forums and at meets that they'd asked the what equipment was used to measure it, and what the permissible rates of acceleration were and it stopped. I think the way Plod deal with it now is different, more like an anti-social behaviour issue. Dealing with tyre stretch through ASBOs probably isn't practical but if they're telling you something is either permissible or not permissible then there needs to be a standardised way of obtaining the measurement.
|
|
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2015 10:13:46 GMT by Battles
|
|
nas80
Part of things
Posts: 363
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 17:07:58 GMT
|
I believe a chap on edition38 went to court about his stretched tyres, it may well be the chap who has vommented on here. He had managed to get a hold of the reccomended wheel widths from the tyre manufacturer, he took that to court and won. Edit: Had a quick look for the thread but couldn't find it. It was quite long. That was me. the prosecution lady,she had nothing on her besides the cops statement. I absolutely destroyed her in court. Cop said my car was dangerous etc, the chart he had he clearly printed off the Internet. He actually let me drive off home after the stop, and i said in court, that if this car was that dangerous he should have ordered a tow truck or prevented me from going home. But he never. Also there was the fact i had absolute proof my tyres were fitted in accordance. This is the first time i have ever wound up in court n won. It was a great feeling.
|
|
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2015 17:15:45 GMT by nas80
|
|
insig
Part of things
Posts: 32
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 17:36:48 GMT
|
I never mentioned anything about measuring, so no need to visit Sainsbury's in search of DVSA approved Carrots and Sausages. As part of the MOT standard tool kit, we do have access to a tape measure.
There are plenty of things that can be dangerous on a car that aren't a MOT fail, or even testable, don't take the MOT as evidence that the car is safe or that it meets its legal requirements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 17:42:28 GMT
|
There are plenty of things that can be dangerous on a car that aren't a MOT fail, or even testable, don't take the MOT as evidence that the car is safe or that it meets its legal requirements. Yeah, that is a whole other thread, but it really annoys me that MOT and law and DVSA (or whoever) requirements are not aligned. MOT is not a roadworthiness test in the eyes of the law effectively :/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 19:06:32 GMT
|
So the tires i've looked at for the commodore are within the producers limits, nice! Tho i find it strange that a 205\40 is approved for a 8" rim, when a 205\45 is not, but different tires. Wish Nankang would have a list like that, seeing as the 155\55's i have on 7" wide rims seemed made for it. The tire "base" is wider than the thread, if that makes any sense? They are also "pre-stretched", as in, they had the stretch shape even before being put on a rim.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 19:10:35 GMT
|
ignore this post....
|
|
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2015 19:20:36 GMT by Deleted
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 19:24:06 GMT
|
I never mentioned anything about measuring, so no need to visit Sainsbury's in search of DVSA approved Carrots and Sausages. As part of the MOT standard tool kit, we do have access to a tape measure. There are plenty of things that can be dangerous on a car that aren't a MOT fail, or even testable, don't take the MOT as evidence that the car is safe or that it meets its legal requirements. So if tyres nor wheels have markings how do you fail them?
|
|
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2015 19:24:59 GMT by Deleted
|
|
MK2VR6
Posted a lot
Mk2 Golf GTi 90 Spec
Posts: 3,328
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 20:14:23 GMT
|
I never mentioned anything about measuring, so no need to visit Sainsbury's in search of DVSA approved Carrots and Sausages. As part of the MOT standard tool kit, we do have access to a tape measure. There are plenty of things that can be dangerous on a car that aren't a MOT fail, or even testable, don't take the MOT as evidence that the car is safe or that it meets its legal requirements. I didn't realise a tape measure was a recognised, calibrated device for use in MOT inspections?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 20:18:36 GMT
|
I never mentioned anything about measuring, so no need to visit Sainsbury's in search of DVSA approved Carrots and Sausages. As part of the MOT standard tool kit, we do have access to a tape measure. There are plenty of things that can be dangerous on a car that aren't a MOT fail, or even testable, don't take the MOT as evidence that the car is safe or that it meets its legal requirements. I didn't realise a tape measure was a recognised, calibrated device for use in MOT inspections? It must be a new item issued recently. I haven't read any updates this month.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 20:34:35 GMT
|
It's not part of MOT or Plod's equipment but most wheel balancing machines use a large plastic caliper doohickey to measure rim width and tyre width is ALWAYS marked on the tyre. It's probably only a matter of time till plods cars come equipped with one of these calipers, they're not exactly expensive and will let them generate another massive windfall for the government/police benevolent fund from people who like stretch!
Steve
|
|
|
|
Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,713
Club RR Member Number: 34
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 20:39:31 GMT
|
it would be interesting to see what did happen if nankang were to issue a chart in line with other manufacturers saying what they could be fitted to, as i reckon their sales would be adversely effected, as they're arguably the stretchers favourite. conversely, they could issue one with 1-2" of width added over the other manufacturers recommendations, and corner the market overnight
|
|
|
|
1900sr
Part of things
I like Mantas me!
Posts: 875
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 20:47:56 GMT
|
it would be interesting to see what did happen if nankang were to issue a chart in line with other manufacturers saying what they could be fitted to, as i reckon their sales would be adversely effected, as they're arguably the stretchers favourite. conversely, they could issue one with 1-2" of width added over the other manufacturers recommendations, and corner the market overnight Have you tried asking their customer services department? They have a contact us form on the website.
|
|
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2015 20:49:01 GMT by 1900sr
|
|
nas80
Part of things
Posts: 363
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 21:14:22 GMT
|
Nankang lol. Even with them nankang tyres on a correctly sized rim id still consider it dangerous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 22:00:47 GMT
|
They really aren't bad tyres to be honest from my use of them, there are much much worse ones out there
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 22:12:58 GMT
|
I didn't realise a tape measure was a recognised, calibrated device for use in MOT inspections? It must be a new item issued recently. I haven't read any updates this month. Hi, they could always use the one they use for measuring excessive corrosion within 300mm of a suspension mounting. Colin
|
|
|
|
sb
Part of things
Posts: 725
|
|
Oct 13, 2015 22:26:02 GMT
|
I never mentioned anything about measuring, so no need to visit Sainsbury's in search of DVSA approved Carrots and Sausages. As part of the MOT standard tool kit, we do have access to a tape measure. For a start you would need a calliper as a tape measure can only be eye balled. But wheel width isnt measured lip to lip, its internal bead to bead, right? I have a set of 7" Wellers that measure about 8.25" lip to lip. The only way to actually measure the width is with a calliper and the tyre removed, plod nor the MOT can do this.
|
|
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2015 22:26:25 GMT by sb
|
|
|