Tipper Trucks?

[edessex]

Yeah I saw that a while back, would love it ...if it was a diesel.

[dodgerover]

Dec 23, 2016 17:03:50 GMT edessex said:

Yeah I saw that a while back, would love it ...if it was a diesel.

Lpg conversion would cost about £250 DIY or about £800/900 budget professional and will be cheaper to run than a diesel if you are paying for fuel

[edessex]

I did look into LPG a few times, seemed a minefield of non-compatable parts and conflicting opinions.

Not overly sure how well they pull weight compared to diesel.

[dodgerover]

It's dead straight forwards you would need a flash lube kit or hardend valve seats to cope with the unleaded nature of lpg. Should be fairly decent with weight I had my lpg transit upto a very illegal train weight it just means working the engine harder. I can send pics of my install if you are interested

[edessex]

I've also seen a few petrol LDV's about. I've not completely ruled them out, so if I get one I might badger you for LPG info!

Before I bought my Vauxhall Movano (2.5CDTI), I went and looked at an LPG converted Convoy van, with the LPG not working! Seemed a common thing.

[dodgerover]

See my earlier comment about the factory fit lpg systems. Repairs to them are possible but finding someone who understands the factory system enough to repair it is difficult.
If it's an ICOM pump in tank system just assume it wants replacing completely if it doesn't work.

[daslandroverman]

Quite correct.
I've done some work removing factory gas systems and replacing them with more serviceable AEB based system.

Gas isn't a bad thing to run a vehicle on (I've had quite a few LPG powered V8's in my time) but the main issue is always supply.
Unless you have an LPG station close to home, or work near/at one etc then filling up becomes something of a chore.

I'm mostly diesel powered at present as the nearest LPG supplier is 15 miles (nearly half an hour) up the road, and I'm at work for all but four of the hours they're open in a week, whilst I can get diesel within 5 minutes drive of home.

To surmise, gas is good, but only if it's convenient to buy it, and you're not buying a vehicle with a system that you can actually service.
Certainly not something to be scared of as some would make out.

[edessex]

I regularly drive past an LPG station, but wouldn't be in this truck. So it would be a 40 minute round trip (not including filling time) to fill up.

However, I suppose there would be very little chance of people cutting fuel lines to steal fuel!

What does LPG keep like though, as it would be an occasional use vehicle?


I've tried finding second hand LPG kits for my daily driver (1993 Vauxhall Astra Mk3, 1.4i), but never had much luck finding them. With this car it's not worth spending much money at all on the kit.

[daslandroverman]

Gas doesn't go off like petrol, so occasional use wouldn't bother it.

New kit isn't that expensive, and with the bits you'd need to replace to make a used kit fit properly (a fair amount of the pipework and possibly wiring) they're not really worth the hassle, unless it's ten miles away, is cheap, nay free and comes with a large and very full tank.

[edessex]

It was mainly getting a tank and the mixing/injecting gubbings I was aiming for. I'd like to give it a try with the car, but as you can probably see I don't understand all the workings, and probably won't until I've got all the bits in front of me!

[dodgerover]

Guesstimating based on a simple petrol injection system being used on the Astra.
Used Blos gas carb £65
Donut tank, filler, vapouriser from something similar sized £50/60 or free depending on your local scrapyard
New changeover switch, wiring, roll of faro pipe, clips sundries £100
Couple of days spent reading up the regs and fitting
Inspection and certification if required £50 to £100

Edit forgot about an emulator to convince the ECU the petrol injectors are still working, no idea on cost should only be cheap though, may not need one at the year of your vehicle.

[edessex]

Yeah this is why its never quite gone ahead... That lot takes it to £300+, on a car I bought for £200.

When I looked into it years ago for a 2.25 LR lightweight, there was conflicting info on running costs. Lots of people were saying that engines use more LPG than petrol (as far as litres go), so although LPG is cheaper per litre, the overall running cost is similar if not the same.

To go through the effort and expense of fitting an LPG kit on an old Astra, it would have to give me significant benefits with regards to running costs.
Also I'm lacking power as it is, and again heard many conflicting things about engine power on gas.

[daslandroverman]

Lots of people are full if curse word when it comes to talking about gas.

For the same performance an engine will use maybe 5-10% more gas as LPG has a lower calorific value than petrol, but the overall cost of the fuel tends to be about 50% that of petrol -with the government still committed to keeping the duty on LPG at the same level compared to petrol on a rolling 3 year period, ie the fuel duty on LPG will remain at 50% (or whatever) of what the petrol duty is, for at least the next 3 years, even if they changed their minds tomorrow- which in turn means that running costs are reduced as the fuel cost for the same distance is reduced.

The best example of this was my old 3.9 V8 Range Rover which at 15mpg on gas cheaper to run than a diesel model which would average 27mpg for the same driving.

I know a chap who gassed a Fiat Chinqecento (late 90s square fiat box thing) and was getting over 100mpg equivalent out of the thing buzzing up and down the country.

As for performance, as with all these things, when it's setup correctly then it will be just as good as on petrol.
Some engines seem to run even sweeter on gas than petrol to boot.

[dodgerover]

^^^^ that exactly. If you aren't bothered about running on petrol most older engines can perform better on gas than on petrol.
Unfortunately pub experts 'know' all about lpg 99% of it is BS

If you were to use the tipper off the public road you could have it set up to run from either a fork lift bottle or upside down propane bottle - obviously neither of these methods should be used on the road.
Personally with that tipper I would be looking at a minimum of 2 x 90l tanks one each side to give a good range so you don't end up going from filling station to filling station.

[astranaut]

Not a tipper but....



C'mon Ed

[edessex]

If a tree falls on the back of the Astra, I may take an angle grinder to it! Lol

The truck would be used on and off the public highway, so unless I can do a plug and play type system with a Calor bottle, then that would be a no-go.

[igor]

I would not consider lpg on a small car like your Astra. You lose too much space fitting the tank and I don't believe that there are any real advantages. On a big juice guzzler such as the 214 petrol TK Bedford I had it is definitely worthwhile.

[edessex]

These days I carry a dreaded space saver behind the drivers seat, so could use the spare wheel well for a doughnut type tank...

[lusciousthelock]

I miss our old fleet of 2002 LDV's. We replaced them with Merc sprinters in 2010. The Sprinter's front Axle is technically overloaded with driver and two crew but they do go well even though ours have heavy caged bodies (payload is down to 800kg). Our old LDV vans had a similar cage design and could still manage to carry 1300kg's Performance was 60-70mph no more. The simple design of the LDV meant they were very easy to maintain. Clutches, starter motor's and door handles were our main consumable and by around 150k miles needed front axles to sort king pin problems (bodged with blobs of weld and ground down for MOT purposes). From a commercial perspective we had trouble in the end getting spares for a fleet of 30ish vehicles so had to look at modern replacements.

Even our drivers miss the LDV's despite hating them at the time. Not comfortable and with few luxuries but damn were they good at what they did.

[georgeb]

Dec 24, 2016 13:33:44 GMT daslandroverman said:

Lots of people are full if curse word when it comes to talking about gas.

For the same performance an engine will use maybe 5-10% more gas as LPG has a lower calorific value than petrol, but the overall cost of the fuel tends to be about 50% that of petrol -with the government still committed to keeping the duty on LPG at the same level compared to petrol on a rolling 3 year period, ie the fuel duty on LPG will remain at 50% (or whatever) of what the petrol duty is, for at least the next 3 years, even if they changed their minds tomorrow- which in turn means that running costs are reduced as the fuel cost for the same distance is reduced.

The best example of this was my old 3.9 V8 Range Rover which at 15mpg on gas cheaper to run than a diesel model which would average 27mpg for the same driving.

I know a chap who gassed a Fiat Chinqecento (late 90s square fiat box thing) and was getting over 100mpg equivalent out of the thing buzzing up and down the country.

As for performance, as with all these things, when it's setup correctly then it will be just as good as on petrol.
Some engines seem to run even sweeter on gas than petrol to boot.

This. My old 4.0L Range Rover was converted when I got it on a simple vaporiser into the plenum and ran with zero issues for the five years I had it. A pal of mine had his done with fancy injectors and again, no problems.

There really are a lot of myths out there.