Battenberg
Part of things
Time for Cake....
Posts: 744
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Dec 31, 2019 21:46:07 GMT
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Hello
I’m currently running a multi car policy and after adding vehicle number 6 things are getting expensive, curious as to how other people approach the situation and if it’s worth looking at some form of other policy.
I tend to ‘cycle’ 4 of the fleet 2-3 times a year for fun/itch scratching with the other 2 being changed every 2-3 years, when I sat down this afternoon mulling 2019 purchases every time I add or sell I get hit with the £40 admin charges as it cannot be done on line and vehicle number 6 added circa £300 overall.
I ideally need a policy that allows me to to have up to X number of cars for X price as long as they are not exotica and pay a fixed price, is this a unicorn or does such a thing exist? I thought of a traders policy but do not want to introduce HMRC into the equation as this is a hobby and not a money making adventure, It’s like Andy from the League of Gentlemen ‘ I want that one’ then get bored and fancy a change!
I know many variables determine things but interested to see how others approach what we do.
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Last Edit: Jan 10, 2020 11:47:32 GMT by Battenberg
Current Fleet: 1968 Wolseley 1000 2022 BMW 430xd MHT Coupe 2007 L200 Animal - Dog walking transport 1998 318is Coupe 2007 Mini Cooper Supercharged 1989 BMW 530 - in storage
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Dec 31, 2019 22:07:01 GMT
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I don't have a multicar policy but I do use Brentacre for my Beetle. Think I paid £130 last year with the mods including the 160bhp motor. I was recommended them by a friend who rang up to tell them he wanted to put a roll cage in his 11-second oval window Beetle and when he asked how much extra it was going to be, they just said thanks for letting us know, no charge! Might be worth speaking to them?
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1968 Cal Look Beetle - 2007cc motor - 14.45@93mph in full street trim 1970-ish Karmann Beetle cabriolet - project soon to be re-started. 1986 Scirocco - big plans, one day!
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Dec 31, 2019 22:08:12 GMT
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Why would HMRC be interested in an individual holding a Motor Traders Insurance policy - its only if you actively run a business and do not inform HMRC of that fact or not declare your losses / profits to them - nothing stopping you holding a traders policy - it may hint that you are trading but providing you can prove that you are not then there is no issue
I hold a traders policy - can have has many vehicles on it that I want - can add / alter the MIDB (Motor Insurance Data Base) with my own vehicles has I wish from my phone / laptop - covers any vehicle up to £50k in value (above this I have to call and inform my insurance company - last they time I did this it was FOC / no uplift) - same company covers my workshop / equipment / tools / public liability - now the bit you didn't want to hear - it costs very close to £2k per annum and that's just for the road risks - the workshop / equipment / public liability is on top of this - you may well get a cheaper motor trade policy quote but from experience I would avoid the enclave of Essex based insurance brokers who offer 'cheap motor trade polices' - these guys hide behind very small print terms that will see them cancel your policy after a few months and offer very little in way of refunding your hard earned money
And at all costs you need to avoid an insurance company that goes by the name of 'TRADEX' and always but always check 'Trustpilot' for the reviews on motor insurance companies & brokers before handing over your £££ - this alone will tell you all you need to know
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Last Edit: Dec 31, 2019 22:28:44 GMT by Deleted
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Battenberg
Part of things
Time for Cake....
Posts: 744
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Dec 31, 2019 22:29:18 GMT
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Why would HMRC be interested in an individual holding a Motor Traders Insurance policy - its only if you actively run a business and do not inform HMRC of that fact or not declare your losses / profits to them - nothing stopping you holding a traders policy - it may hint that you are trading but providing you can prove that you are not then there is no issue I hold a traders policy - can have has many vehicles on it that I want - can add / alter the MIDB (Motor Insurance Data Base) with my own vehicles has I wish from my phone / laptop - covers any vehicle up to £50k in value (above this I have to call and inform my insurance company - last they time I did this it was FOC / no uplift) - same company covers my workshop / equipment / tools / public liability - now the bit you didn't want to hear - it costs very close to £2k per annum and that's just for the road risks - the workshop / equipment / public liability is on top of this - you may well get a cheaper motor trade policy quote but from experience I would avoid the enclave of Essex based insurance brokers who offer 'cheap motor trade polices' - these guys hide behind very small print terms that will see them cancel your policy after a few months and offer very little in way of refunding your hard earned money Thanks for your response Interesting to hear I can run a traders policy for personal and not professional use, may I ask if you can PM the company you use? The premium you are paying is close to what I have paid in total this year and would allow a degree of flexibility, I’m quite fortunate to have access to free storage which removes a massive overhead!!
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Current Fleet: 1968 Wolseley 1000 2022 BMW 430xd MHT Coupe 2007 L200 Animal - Dog walking transport 1998 318is Coupe 2007 Mini Cooper Supercharged 1989 BMW 530 - in storage
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Ryannn
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,421
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Dec 31, 2019 22:48:18 GMT
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Footman James do what they call a “collectors policy” I’ve no idea on the criteria though.
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simes
Part of things
Posts: 734
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Footman James do what they call a “collectors policy” I’ve no idea on the criteria though. Watch the latest Harry’s garage, he is insured by them on a multi car policy. A very reasonable cost for the quantity of vehicles he has.
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Last Edit: Jan 1, 2020 9:02:01 GMT by simes
Simes
205Mi16 - 262 cams, Jenvey Throttle Bodies, Emerald managment blah blah...... E91 320D MSport Honda NC30 Vespa 300GTS
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Beware if going for a trader's policy you inform then exactly why you need that policy and also be aware that any payout will be at bottom book price out lower as they assume you are able to buy at this price. Also it is rumoured in the event of a claim they may ask for proof of trading.
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Beware if going for a trader's policy you inform then exactly why you need that policy and also be aware that any payout will be at bottom book price out lower as they assume you are able to buy at this price. Also it is rumoured in the event of a claim they may ask for proof of trading. Some false information here - I insure what is my own personal stock + clients vehicles that are with me for repair under my Motor Trade Policy - the vast majority of what I have in the workshop or in storage is of an agreed value which my insurer is happy to accept - I make a point of this with my insurer has there is no way that I can replace a concours vehicle valued at £45k with something of say £30k in value or of a lower standard should the worse ever happen - I also have a escalating value agreement that covers the fact that a vehicle that came into the workshop valued at say £5k due its poor condition - is going to increase in value has the restoration work progresses
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jules
Part of things
Posts: 75
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I had a motor trade policy for a few years. Probably had my work van, the missus car, my bike (honda fireblade) and 2 or 3 other cars on it most of the time. What i recall it worked out a lot cheaper than insuring all individually and was great because you could add or subtract any time with no admin charge or cost of insuring another. However after 3 or 4 years the insurance company my broker found in the last year wanted proof of trading ie changing/selling of stock and receipts to prove and did start to hassle me after a few months into that years policy.
Downsized in the end so just started insuring individually.
It worked very well for me at the time but my understanding is a motor traders policy is obviously meant for motor traders ! and as just stated if you make a claim, get pulled by the police etc you could be leaving yourself open to a bit of a minefield.
Would be nice if someone did a collectors policy. If you owned several cars and bikes it's difficult to drive or ride them all at the same time so the associated risk is a lot lower so the overall policy cost should reflect this.
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jules
Part of things
Posts: 75
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Sorry Grumpy your reply crossed with mine.
Just to add at the time my motor traders policy as you state allowed me to add personal vehicles as well as what were deemed stock. Can't comment on any claim/ payouts as I didn't make any.
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Currently have 4 cars on 2 separate policies. My Fiesta the wife uses is on its own policy and my Mondeos are on an Aviva multi car policy. Not 100% happy with the way the policy changes are made as, although i can change the insured car, i cant cancel a car online and have to contact them if i sell one without a replacement lined up.
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In my experience I have found that trade policies are for traders not private owners. In the event of a claim the insurer will want proof of trading and thus try and prove your not operating in the way you set up the policy, and as far as I know to take a policy you need a trade within the sector. I've had 8 years of trade policies with different companies using tradewise for the last 3 or so. They were ok to me although lots of horror reviews online!
I used to be able to insure my transport company as 'recovery' as it was a grey area and I moved used cars all over the country, a few years ago they all started using 'breakdown recovery' as a way to clamp down on who's doing what in that field. Needless to say to had to up my cover
The brokers are the ones to speak to fpr advice an underwriter is a mare to deal with directly incase of issues and brokers know the game.
I'm not an expert just putting out there what I've learnt about it
Happy new year
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I use Reis Motorsport for both my Traders (motorsport events policy) and other policies. I recommend them to many of our custoemrs. They offer multi car policies and are very used to dealing with retro and performance cars. Also their road policies can include a number of days a year of insurance on track should you wish for eaxmple to take part in the sprint at RR Weekender or the the retro trackday they have planned for July Also if you mention Slip&Grip Automotive they may offer you a better price.
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It's been 10 years since I was in the Insurance industry but it's probably worth talking it over with a specialist broker about this. Trouble is you aren't a business so a standard small fleet policy won't work usually. There were "ways" of getting round this such as rich families declaring themselves as "property owners". Not something that I could recommend doing in today's transparent world. Speak to a broker as there must be others like you out there.
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I’ve got three cars insured all with different insurers Could not get a decent multi quote anywhere And the traders policies have too many grey areas Many wanted proof of trading premises which I don’t have Two of our cars are on classic policies so not to expensive My daily is around £300 fully comp I do have over ten years ncb though
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Fraud owners club member 1999 Jaguar s type 1993 ford escort
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If you don't run a business that justifies a traders policy you wont want a traders policy. You have to be able to prove you are generating an income from a relevant business activity. It doesn't cover individuals privately owning multiple vehicles. The distinction isn't a simple binary "Traders or Private" one anyway. There are many different types of traders insurance policy underneath that broad headline. Buying and selling will be a different policy to delivering and collecting, or running a staff fleet, or operating a mechanics/repair business for customers. The policy has to cover the circumstances of the business. You might want to look at an "Enthusiast" policy for part-time trading, a home car dealer policy, or restorer/collector Insurance policy. As far as I can recall the 'part-time collector' category allows a grey area that can be exploited for cover of multiple vehicles that you merely have "so far been unsuccessful in selling". I had a friend a good few years ago who took early retirement and started buying himself a bunch of cars, and all he needed to do was set up a simple website where they were allegedly on sale, and every now and then when he fancied a change... he'd sell one of them. That was enough to provide a part-time/enthusiast policy that covered anything he wanted to drive. This was a good few years ago though and I have no idea how much things might have changed since then. Here is just one of a number of sites you can Google with advice and Q&As about traders insurance... www.thinkinsurance.co.uk/motor-trade/can-anyone-get-traders-insurance
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Last Edit: Jan 2, 2020 20:40:16 GMT by Deleted
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I’ve had trade policies for about 10 years with various different underwriters and never once have I been asked for any proof whatsoever of trading. I do have a business address though.
I don’t even have that high a turnover of cars on the policy, probably only 3 or 4 going on or coming off a year with about 10 or so permanently on there. Some have been on there listed as personal fleet for the entire 10 years. I do drive a fair few other people’s cars but they rarely stay for more than 2 weeks so don’t need adding to the policy.
Tbh I’m about done with trade policies though. The underwriters keep cutting back on what you get for the money and charging more and more for it, to the point I can cover 10 cars privately with more comprehensive cover for less than what the trade policy that covers them costs. .
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I’ve had trade policies for about 10 years with various different underwriters and never once have I been asked for any proof whatsoever of trading. I do have a business address though. That will be the proof then, especially if you are in the trade, and if you've never made a claim you may not be aware of the full process.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I’ve had trade policies for about 10 years with various different underwriters and never once have I been asked for any proof whatsoever of trading. I do have a business address though. That will be the proof then, especially if you are in the trade, and if you've never made a claim you may not be aware of the full process. Hardly proof, loads of people have access to multiple addresses and anyone can rent a lockup or storage unit and use that address. I just told them one address was home and one work and it was never questioned. I’ve done two claims in that period and been asked for less paperwork than with a private policy. They do treat you like slightly less of an idiot than they do with private policies though.
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I have held a motor trade policy for several years and have never been asked to prove that I am trading has such - nothing to do with holding a business address either - I operate from a detached premise but within the same site of my home residence and my home address is used for the business - I'm aware of two others within the trade that do likewise
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