Question regarding car towing capability

[norm75]

Sadly a friend of mine passed away a few months ago, leaving his wife who does not drive with a caravan on the driveway and a car on the road, which needs to be moved onto the drive. She wants to sell the caravan and my wife has offered to buy it to get it out of the way and give her some much needed cash.

The only vehicle we have at the moment with a tow bar is a Mazda 2 that we bought our son to learn to drive in. I can not find a definitive answer if it is legal to tow the van with the Mazda. All I know is the Mazda I believe weighs 970kg with a towing capacity of 500kg un braked and 1000kg braked. The caravan according to the inter web weighs 845kg, but I have read there are percentages of the caravan weight that the tow car must be in order to tow it legally, but I don’t know much about it.

[rattlecan]

A simple rule that is generally adopted is that the caravan, ideally should be no more than 85% of the weight of your car. This is not a legal requirement however.
If the caravan weighs the same as the car it’s a no no really.

Some info here
www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/towing-a-caravan/

[raumer]

There is a big difference between guideline and what vehicles are capable of.

The 85% is a guideline and not law. You must go by the maximum towing limit for your vehicle. For a normal car it is unusual to see the maximum towed weight the same as the cars weight. But it does come up.

I could go in to lots of detail but suffice to say go by the manufacturers recommendation. As an example our 110 Landrovers weigh about 1700kg empty but are rated at 3500kg towing. About twice their weight, I've towed this much and no problem.

How far do you need to move the caravan? Have you done towing before? And whereabouts in the country are you? There may be someone near you with a bigger tow vehicle who could help out.

[raumer]

Apologies, completely forget that there is a licence issue. Do you have the older up to 7500kg licence or the newer 3500kg licence?

If the earlier then you are fine. If the latter then you can't tow it. The newer up to 3500kg licence (think post 97) only allow you to tow up to 750kg or up to a percentage of the MAM of the tow vehicle.

[norm75]

I used to tow a trailer with moto x bikes on it years ago, and regularly tow a twin axle trailer with a Landy on a farm. Father in law can tow it, lives in same village as the caravan is situated at the moment, about 5 miles away from my house.

So the towing limit of 3500kg doesn’t actually mean you can tow a car and van with combined weight of 1810kg? That’s a bit misleading if that’s the case. I did have grandfather rights for 7.5 tonne, but had a seizure in a hospital nearly 20 years ago and dvla kindly revoked my license for the best part of a year while they finally decided after many months of being told that I didn’t have epilepsy that I could have my license back, albeit with many categories removed! 7.5 tonne rights being one of them, although I believe I only have to have a medical to get them reinstated.

[raumer]

Apologies again, just checked the government site and it appears the rules have changed again. Below is from the gov site:

If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can:

drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

Check if your licence has the b + e category as well.

[norm75]

Yes I’ve just been on gov website, I have B E on license and website says can tow any weight. Passed test in ‘92

[surprisingskoda]

Jan 29, 2021 18:39:45 GMT raumer said:

Apologies again, just checked the government site and it appears the rules have changed again. Below is from the gov site:

If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can:

drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

Check if your licence has the b + e category as well.

It's extremely finickety to get the numbers just right but you CAN tow something over 750kg which is BRAKED as long as it is still within the MAM of the car.
In this case with the Mazda having a 1000kg limit and the caravan presumably braked at 845kg, and overall weight not exceeding 3500kg, this would be legal. Safe, no comment.
I believe there was confusion as to the combined train MAM had to also be under 3500kg but that this was redacted and refreshed due to complaints and it is the actual train weight that must be kept under 3500kg, not the MAM as that meant an unladen trailer capable of carrying more than the car's limit was technically illegal when unladen. I also think that very new licences within the last couple of years have actually been a set limit of 750kg without any allowance for braked trailers over that, but I'm not 100%.
Either way old man rights trump this worry in this particular circumstance.

[slater]

Without reading it all i can tell theres some bad or at least confusing advice here..

First consider the vehicle and trailer itself. If the towing car has a max towing wight of 1000kg braked and the caravan is 800kg odd and has brakes then obviously you are well within and legal. When considering what a vehicle can tow its pretty simple tbh. Manufacturers give either a max towing weight or a max train weight (which is your max towing weight minus your vehicles gross weight or MAM.) If the trailer weighs less than that your good. Doesn't matter what the MAM of the trailer is its just the actual weight of it that matters. The MAM of the trailer only comes in to stop you overloading the trailer itself.

Then consider your licence restrictions separately because its entirely different rules.. Licence restrictions don't work on the actual weight of what you are towing, you only consider the GROSS WEIGHT or MAM of what your towing. Even with a normal post 97 licence you are allowed to tow up to 3.5ton combined MAM so you should be well within that as long as the caravan doesn't have some silly high 2000kg+ MAM. If it did you could 'plate it down' by making up your own weight plate with a lower MAM on it. as long as it doesn't actually weigh more than whats on the new plate your golden.

There are a couple of other rules relating to post 97ers like being able to tow a 750kg trailer if you are towing with a 3.5 MAM vehicle and of course not being able to tow any trailer over 750kg without brakes (A frame users I'm looking at you!!) but those don't apply here.

[raumer]

Up to 750kg unbraked is a construction and use regulation not a licence issue. The only two exceptions I have come across are steam engines and recovery. Outside of those above 750kg must be braked.

[rattlecan]

Basically, I think you can pretty much disregard every answer, including mine earlier, because quite clearly not a single poster has a clue what the law is. 🤣🤣

[rallyboy]

If the manufacturer's towing weight is 1000kg and the 'van weighs 845kg then from a vehicle perspective that's OK.

[igor]

For a short journey on local roads / easy terrain I'd be inclined to just do it. What're the odds of getting caught?

[rattlecan]

Jan 30, 2021 19:43:09 GMT igor said:

For a short journey on local roads / easy terrain I'd be inclined to just do it. What're the odds of getting caught?

Oh my word don’t even mention doing that. I happened to say I’d got a classic car without a rear fog light & you’d have thought I’d committed some kind of capital offence. Oh no, admit nothing 😉