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Oct 21, 2009 20:19:50 GMT
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Yes... your complaint is this place is over moderated. Others are complaining to me it is under moderated. What makes you (or them) more right?
How does one recconcile the two sides? To save time I'll give you a response, you use your experience and judgment to make a decision and you stop trying to please everyone.
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Oct 21, 2009 22:54:19 GMT
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Whilst I accept you are never going to please everyone, you have to admit I am not the only one thinking there are more rules than most on here than there are on other forums, and it is off-putting. One of the other forums I am on has over 10,000 members, another over 16,000. I don't see odd rules like be excellent to one another (odd to see it stated, as it's stating the obvious) and yet they are neither of them hotbeds of anarchy.
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Funny thing is I have more people requesting me to delete threads, ban members and "get the forum back on track" than I have people complaining about over moderation.
The site never used to have any rules.. at all. It was accepted that we talk about modified classic cars.. and that is all we talked about.. then people came along and wanted to complain about VOSA, DVLA, the police, how bad their day was, trashing 'chav' rides, trashing each others rides etc. etc. ... then the rules started. The rules are a result of peoples actions, not as a set up guide we started with.
Your perception of things may be one way,.. the facts are possibly the almost exact opposite. Our rules are as a result of actions, not as a way to guide them in the first place. I wish I could go back to having no rules and almost no moderation,.. but I tried it a few months back and the entire place turned to junk. On the other hand right now the main forum is a pretty cool place to be.
I'm curious about the 10,000 member forum that has almost no problems and no rules...
*edit : needless sarcasm on my part
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Last Edit: Oct 22, 2009 8:13:50 GMT by HoTWire
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Oct 22, 2009 10:05:35 GMT
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I was here a few months ago, and the 'be excellent' ect rule was in place then, as was the Whinge Bin. I joined over 18 months ago. I didn't notice any anarchy happening either. It couldn't have been that bad or I would have noticed, I am on here and other forums daily. The 10.000+ membership forum is Old Skool Ford. Yes there are rucks and people do get banned, but very very rarely. Again I am on there almost every day. Largely people are left to it like adults.
At the end of the day, it's not like we are going to stab each other. Just how bad exactly could letting people speak their mind once in a while get?
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Oct 22, 2009 10:39:53 GMT
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Thing is, you weren't here 5 years ago when we started or the 3 years after that where we didn't have any rules because we didn't need them. Then one day I turn around the membership had increased five fold and the main forum was full of threads about really un-interesting cars, complaints about the Government, trashing of anything a little unusual. This isn't what were about here. So I did something about it. I could just remove the whinge bin and start deleting threads? Which is what most other forums do... I liked the whinge bin concept as peopel get to talk about something and occasionally get a response before it is binned. Also people get to see what isn't desired here. It has had a noticeably positive effect on the quality of posts in the main forum. One make car forums are a totally different place there is less chance for friction... whats more I find OSF a very negative place to be. Happy to trash each others and other peopels rides, which isn't what we need to keep things moving forward and interesting. At the end of the day, it's not like we are going to stab each other. Just how bad exactly could letting people speak their mind once in a while get? Did you not see the thread where people on this forum were getting griefed on Ebay by members of this forum over things they had said? We all go to shows together, we see each other, a bad atmosphere creates ill feeling. It is not something I want on my forum. Other people might want it,.. but I don't... it is what makes this place different as far as I'm concerned, I like that difference.
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Last Edit: Oct 22, 2009 10:41:31 GMT by HoTWire
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Oct 22, 2009 11:34:37 GMT
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I wish I could go back to having no rules and almost no moderation,.. but I tried it a few months back and the entire place turned to junk. No, I wasn't here 5 years ago, but this is why I mentioned I didn't notice there was ciaos some months ago. I also can't see why you couldn't have an off topic section, if it bothers you so much that members are starting these threads. BTW if they are starting them, perhaps that's a clue that they want to participate in off topic threads? Also, this is interesting, gae thread?
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Oct 22, 2009 11:52:19 GMT
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I also can't see why you couldn't have an off topic section, if it bothers you so much that members are starting these threads. BTW if they are starting them, perhaps that's a clue that they want to participate in off topic threads? Ahhh there is the rub,... I don't have an off topic section because a) there are hundreds of other places you can talk off topic, the world doesn't need another off topic forum and b) I don't want to run a forum with an off topic section. Judging by where the majority of your activity is on OSF I can see you like Off topic forums... I suggest you enjoy the ones you are a member of and use Retro Rides for talking about modified old cars (or getting cars from the forum for your business). This isn't a democracy I'm afraid.
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Oct 22, 2009 12:29:56 GMT
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Well I had grasped this is not a democracy. Should I be flattered you have been looking into my useage of other forums? Did you look into autoshite.com? Not a lot of choice with that forum. It's all in one lump. Yet it still works. The members are not at each other's throats and they manage to have conversations about old cars too. Same with my forum. I am sure you know where that (they) are so you will see what I am up to there too. There is no such thing as a completely off topic forum, and it's not too hard to angle any subject whatsoever to the subject of the forum a post is made on. So it's just down to the opinion of the Admin just how off topic a thread or post is. Clearly my activity on here can't be that off topic or it would have all been deleted by now....
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Oct 22, 2009 13:33:49 GMT
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Well I had grasped this is not a democracy. Should I be flattered you have been looking into my useage of other forums? Did you look into autoshite.com? Not a lot of choice with that forum. It's all in one lump. Yet it still works. The members are not at each other's throats and they manage to have conversations about old cars too. Same with my forum. Ahh that is a function of size,.. same as this place, with a small community it is self managing, it eventually reaches a tipping point and the disperate opinions and lack of social cohesion cause tension which starts to cause problems. The people that have been around the longest often don't like the new people that don't want to follow the founding spirit of the forum, so go and do something else, the specialist groups go off and form their own forums, or go and concentrate on their already exisiting more specialised forums. I am sure you know where that (they) are so you will see what I am up to there too. There is no such thing as a completely off topic forum, and it's not too hard to angle any subject whatsoever to the subject of the forum a post is made on. So it's just down to the opinion of the Admin just how off topic a thread or post is. Exactly.. and I've deemed for my forum that anything that isn't about modified classic cars/older cars/cars is off topic. I've also deemed that anything that dissappears into ranting about the government rather than being a useful and informative thread that people might get some value from is also not desired. This is my choice, it seems to be fairly popular so far. A handful of people would rather the forum was different, I suggest, as ever, they find somewhere more suitable to their tastes than try to change this place. Afterall if the way I run the forum isnt popular it'll end up without any users or content. It is how the freedom of the internet works. Clearly my activity on here can't be that off topic or it would have all been deleted by now.... Yes,.. because it is in the about the forum and website section,.. and this is a discussion about the forum.....
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Oct 22, 2009 13:58:18 GMT
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I think a discussion of my Lexus wheels is about as OT as I'd want to be going LOL. Thats not been binned yet. ;D
FWIW - I don't much like OSF forum. Fair play to those who do. I also don't like sea food or R'n'B music. Different strokes for different folks. If here was like there I'd be somewhere else.
There was a point I had gotten hacked off with this forum, I think it was when it was getting a lot of rubbish posted. I like it better now than then.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Oct 22, 2009 14:04:11 GMT
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Actually I meant all of my 1,200 + posts, not just this topic. Ahh that is a function of size,.. same as this place, with a small community it is self managing, it eventually reaches a tipping point and the disperate opinions and lack of social cohesion cause tension which starts to cause problems. The people that have been around the longest often don't like the new people that don't want to follow the founding spirit of the forum, so go and do something else, the specialist groups go off and form their own forums, or go and concentrate on their already exisiting more specialised forums. Whilst you were on OSF did you notice any tension or lack of social cohesion? How about autoshite? Not much arguing on there either, come to think of it none. Also if the some of the people who had been around the longest didn't like new members there would be no new members anywhere. they would be made to feel unwelcome and go. BTW, on the subject of post count, your mentioning my asking for cars to rent for film work makes it look like it was the only reason I am here. As that's happened about 6 times (could be a few more, but not a lot more) is it really relevant? Call it ten times, with answers it could probably only account for 20-30 posts. If it's a problem I won't ask again.
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Oct 22, 2009 14:53:59 GMT
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Whilst you were on OSF did you notice any tension or lack of social cohesion? How about autoshite? Not much arguing on there either, come to think of it none. Also if the some of the people who had been around the longest didn't like new members there would be no new members anywhere. they would be made to feel unwelcome and go. autoshite is too small and specialised to have hit the size problems yet, and yes I do find the OSF seems to have a lot of negativity particularly for new and interesting ideas,.. but it has been that way since 2005 when I joined and is probably more to do with the Ford scene than the forum itself, but as I said, one make forums are much easier to manage than a forum that tries to get everyone together. For a comparison to this place have a look at Pistonheads and Vortex, they are much bigger, but they are the end point for large cross maker forums. Interestingly what happens is not that new members go, but old members move on to the next thing. Just the way of the world. I do this stuff for a living, the analysis and building of communities both within organisation and for public facing websites. The success of this site isn't an accident. BTW, on the subject of post count, your mentioning my asking for cars to rent for film work makes it look like it was the only reason I am here. Apologies for that, I'm having a tough day. Just the main reason I see you name around. I think it is a good thing, not a bad thing by the way. I'm glad we have a forum diverse and popular enough that you can come in here and usually get pointed in the right direction or find exactly what you want
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WTF is the point? LOLBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Oct 22, 2009 16:02:56 GMT
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I don't get why people have a problem with the forum staying on-topic. You wouldn't march up to the bartender at a biker bar and ask him why they don't have a house music DJ in one night a week.
It's often the newer people that sound off about RR not being how they like it. That's not really aimed at you Fredtransit, and I don't really wish to sound like I'm saying "things were better back in the day", because a thriving community needs new people and I firmly believe that RR is getting better and better, despite a few hiccups along the way.
I don't want to visit RR and be faced with pages of drivel about nonsense totally unrelated to cars. RR is about modified old cars. People join RR because they like talking about, are interested in, and mostly own old modified cars. It isn't a hard concept to grasp. This isn't Facebook.
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Oct 22, 2009 17:00:53 GMT
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OK. I don't do facebook. It is nice to have input and have it listened to though. Sorry I forgot. This is a dictatorship. It must be, it's not a democracy......
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Oct 22, 2009 17:05:02 GMT
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Facebook is my offtopic forum!
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Oct 22, 2009 17:18:38 GMT
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OK. I don't do facebook. It is nice to have input and have it listened to though. Sorry I forgot. This is a dictatorship. It must be, it's not a democracy...... Always has been, from day one it was referred to as a Benevolant Dictatorship. What Rmad says is spot on though, facebook has become my off topic forum. That and Volkszone general forum.
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Oct 22, 2009 17:39:07 GMT
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So you go to other forums and talk off topic? Why can't that happen here? You have to accept it DOES happen, if you are going to VZ and doin the OT thang.....
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WTF is the point? LOLBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Oct 22, 2009 17:57:13 GMT
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So you go to other forums and talk off topic? Why can't that happen here? You have to accept it DOES happen, if you are going to VZ and doin the OT thang..... Because RR also doesn't have a store price comparison section. It doesn't have a news and current affairs section. It doesn't have a dating section. It doesn't have a lot of things, because there are specific sites for just such things. What it does have is a thriving, fast-moving, positive and enthusiastic group of people talking about modified classic cars. It does this better than any other website on the internet.
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Oct 22, 2009 18:11:26 GMT
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I don't want dating, or cooking, climbing, gardening or decorating. I do however want to talk about the DVLA, parking wardens and the price of petrol. They are all subjects that are related to cars, but not actually about cars. That's perfectly natural. If I went to RR Gathering and struck up a conversation about my dogs, or van runs in the 80s, would I be chucked out? What's actively being said here is p155 off and go and chat elsewhere......
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WTF is the point? LOLBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Oct 22, 2009 18:15:44 GMT
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What's actively being said here is p155 off and go and chat elsewhere...... Whilst I sometimes think that it sounds harsh, that's always been the way HoTWire runs things... it's always been the way that if you don't like things here, you can go elsewhere. I hope you don't go elsewhere, but don't be surprised if that's the response you get.
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