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I also struggle to believe that there are 1887 Buick Wildcats on the UK roads. They have no Oldsmobile Toronados on and I know there are a couple of dozen here at least. In fact (excluding F-85s) they only have 5 Oldsmobiles in total for the UK. Odd, the Oldsmobile numbers in the copies I downloaded yesterday are: Taxed:"Missing" model (just registered as "Oldsmobile") : 248 Delta: 11 Toronado: 9 F85: 1 SORN:"Missing" model: 78 Toronado: 11 Delta: 6 F85: 1 And, for Buick Wildcats: Taxed: 3 SORN: 1 Also 372 taxed and 108 SORN "missing model" Buicks, some of which might be Wildcats - can't blame the spreadsheet for what the dealer / importer decided to put on the forms! edited to add: Just noticed that, after searching for a particular model, you must reset both the make and model columns to "all" before trying another. Otherwise you end up searching for things like Morris Veyrons or Bugatti Minors ;D
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May 26, 2011 23:50:52 GMT
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0 Galant GTO's or Colt GTO's on that list :/ The model names aren't 100% reliable because it depends on what was put when it was registered - check your V5 for what they called it Could also have been listed under model "missing" or "unknown model"
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May 26, 2011 23:47:58 GMT
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I dread to think how many Panda Selectas are left, as most of them died out due to people not changing the CVT fluid, so the transmissions gave up after 50k-60k miles 47 on road, 150 on SORN
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May 26, 2011 23:30:44 GMT
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Why go to SMMT for registration statistics when you can get the DVLA ones (up to Q4 2010 anyway) here? www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/vehicles/licensing/Scroll down to All Vehicles Licensed Stock and you can download details of licensed and SORN vehicles by make & model for the last 15 years or so. So, how rare is yours? Ours are: Daf 33: 16 on road (+ 2 vans), 6 SORN (+ 1 van) Daf Daffodil: 1 on road, 1 SORN (neither is ours, it was still lost to the system until Feb) Triumph 1300: 170 on road, 91 SORN
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May 25, 2011 13:14:13 GMT
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The difference with ABS is that it's possible (though very unlikely) for a fault to do nasty things - like, think a wheel's locked when it hasn't and disable braking. A faulty rear wiper, on the other hand, just means you have to use your door mirrors or get out and wipe the rear screen now & then edited to add: he's got a good point about the VOSA rule makers tough
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May 24, 2011 23:31:43 GMT
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You really don't get it, do you? The British public as a whole do not like "troublemakers". The maverick standing uypo for his Freedom (deliberate capital F) may be a cultural icon over there, but over here most people have little sympathy for them except in movies. American style campaigning on behalf of what they see as a group of slightly odd people who drive old / modified cars and already get special dispensations to do so in a lot of cases will, if anything, get their backs up and a politician who is then seen to "cave in" to that group will lose far more votes than they could hope to gain from the car enthusiasts. Seeing as they also stand to gain money by hitting the old car crowd (whether car tax or inspection fees) it becomes a no-brainer for anyone motivated by votes and money. Hit the troublemakers, and hit them hard. The Daily Mail readers (who're fed up with Dwayne next door and his modified car anyway) will then all vote for you and you can collect extra taxes into the bargain. Incidentally, Sonny, I'm probably old enough to be your dad, if not your gran'pappy and I've lived my entire life over here so understand the British psyche far better than you do
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May 24, 2011 22:36:10 GMT
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A load of American motivational twaddle Yeah, and the French burn sheep in ports. Your way of doing things may well work in America (or even some of Europe) but all it will do here is get people's backs up. That's nothing to do with "seeming OTT" or being "afraid", it's a simple matter of differing cultures. Edited to add: as for ACE "giving a voice", I assure you I'm perfectly capable of using my own voice on this, or any other matter. ACE do a very good job indeed of raising awareness of issues and, by the research they do and the questions they ask, they make those in power aware of the concerns of ordinary enthusiasts. It's then up to the enthusiasts to follow that up but, by finding out who to ask, and asking, ACE give a voice to those questions. Obviously your American ways don't stretch to extending courtesy to someone you've just been on the edge of an argument with by acknowledging their value. No wonder we let you colonials go all those years ago
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May 24, 2011 19:15:25 GMT
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Yup, they are professionals and ACE isn't . All we are doing is trying to raise awareness of these proposals , let the legislators know there is a contrary point of view meanwhile and also trying to get our manufacturers and suppliers woken up to fund professional lobbying. After all there are so many people who are concerned and created organisations to try to watch our automotive freedom that you can't go anywhere without tripping over them. Honestly can't fault you guys for that, and sorry if my first pst came across as a dig - it really wasn't meant that way. With the FBHVC taking a contradictory stance of "use however you want as long as it's not daily" and FIVA, frankly, living on their own planet where they seem to value provenance and celebrity connections more than the car itself (cultural difference maybe?), both seem to be more interested in "investment" collectors rather than people who appreciate cars for what they are. In that context, ACE do an amazing job of providing a voice for real enthusiasts!
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May 24, 2011 15:05:10 GMT
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I love the worry worts who are consumed with whether or not they will look "foolish" if they write a letter. Yeah. You just go ahead and keep introspecting and self-examining while your car rights are dissolved. Great strategy. Almost as great a strategy as confining your activities to letter-writing. Let's see how would letter-writing have worked back in 1776? "Dear King George, Could you please consider....." ;D Hope you're not including me in the "worry worts" cos that's certainly not the point I was making. There are so many problems with this proposed definition without concocting inaccurate scares based on huge assumptions (that they'd change the whole of VERA, for instance, just to introduce a revised definition of Historic). My point was simply that, no matter how good your case may be, the professional lobbyists who might like to see use of our cars restricted will happily pounce on one OTT claim to trash the whole case. Because they're professionals and that's what they do. So better to fight this sort of thing on the incontrovertible facts like: Interference with national culture contrary to Article 3() of the Lisbon Treaty: What historical significance a State may, or may not, place on a particular object is an inherently cultural matter. Logically, it doesn't matter whether that object is a religious text, a nationally important building, the decision whether or not it's "historic" is a matter of cultural identity. Breach of Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR, Protection of Property: The peaceful enjoyment of private property can only be interfered with "in the public interest". In common with any exceptions to the ECHR, any such interference must be proportional to the identified risk. The real-world safety risk of old cars compared to new is demonstrably nil (hence lower premiums for "classics", insurance companies aren't known for geting risk calculations wrong), the environmental "risk" is minimal at worst, and they pose a net economic benefit to society. So the permissible interference is none, beyond what is already in place for cars generally (ie: requirements for insurance, roadworthiness requirements and possibly road tax). They might be justified in re-introducing road tax for pre-73 models but everyone keeps claiming the objections aren't based on losing the free tax, so that's not an issue, is it? The impossibility of effectively policing such a definition: Pretty well self-explanatory really. The increase in bureaucracy (and, hence, cost) required to even attempt to police this would be out of all proportion to any possible benefit. How do you (accurately) ascertain annual mileages without modifying the vehicle with tamper-proof electronics, thereby rendering it unoriginal? Who exactly to do you consult to see whether a particular example is "historically accurate"? I've no doubt there are plenty of users on here with modified cars that are bending the 8 points rules to breaking point already, yet it generally isn't a problem. If they can't police obvious mods like that, how are they ever going to keep track of what's "historically correct" or not on the 100s of thousands of classics out there? Hell, when it comes to our Daf 32 and 33 I'm probably one of the most knowledgeable in the country by now so I guess they'll have to ask me if my own cars are accurate? Then there's the costs of administering such a definition. All of the inspections, reports and tracking required are going to cost. A lot. The people who would bear that cost are either the State (politically bad move there) or those with "real" classics who wish to have them registered as such. I may be wrong, but somehow I can't see Lord Montague being happy at having his entire road-going collection undergoing an in-depth inspection each year to ensure it's still "original"? But the thing with laws is, they're universal so if I need that inspection for my Daf, so does he on all of his. So, plenty of points to attack the proposal on without resorting to scares that can be shown inaccurate with 5 minutes of Googling "VERA"
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^^^There is no current evidence to support your point. As it stands currently if your car is in the Historic taxation class you cannot opt to change it to PLG and pay road tax. Nobody knows what will happen if the FIVA definition is brought into law. They might make it so that all cars that are no longer classed as historic become PLG by default. However they might not. Nobody would know until the law had been passed and the regulations came out, by which time it is far too late. The reason that this proposal needs fighting is that WE DO NOT KNOW what the repercussions will be. If there was a big EU crystal ball and there was 100% certainty that previously Historic cars that no longer fit the definition would become PLG by default it wouldn't be a massive problem. Yes a lot of people would have to pay road tax, but that's not a bad thing in the grand scheme of things. However we don't have a crystal ball, so it's better to fight now rather than hedging our bets on what will happen later. Matt Matt Yes there IS evidence to support my point. It's called the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (as amended) Section 2, and Schedules 1 and 2. This is the law which specifies which category vehicles fall into and it's already set up so that anything that doesn't fit a defined category comes under the "general rate". All FIVA are suggesting is changing the definition of Historic to something that our cars wouldn't fit. So they would become "General rate", the same as any other car registered before 1st March 2001.
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May 23, 2011 19:40:21 GMT
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So who is guessing how the future legislation will work now then ? Good afternoon *****. I'm not sure if this is your area of expertise ,if not could you please pass it along to the relevant department please ? If a vehicle qualifies for Historic Classification, by virtue of its date of manufacture, can it chose to be taxed as PLG instead or does its date of manufacture preclude that choice ? cheers Kev Rooney ACE Admin Team Good Afternoon Mr Rooney Pre 1973 vehicles which qualify for ‘Historic’ road tax must be licensed as such. Regards ***** Casework &Specialist Advice Zone1/D16 Policy and External Communication That's all very well, but it doesn't address the point I made because it assumes that date of manufacture is the deciding factor on Historic classification. That's true at the moment but, if the FIVA definition is adopted throughout Europe (which is what the fears are), then it will only be one factor of several required. The vehicle will also have to be essentially original and not in daily use. If it's modified, it won't be Historic, so it'll be PLG by default. If it's in daily use it won't be historic, so it'll be PLG by default. The real worry should be that the EU introduce directives severely limiting the use of historic vehicles on safety or environmental grounds but then don't adopt a definition like the FIVA one which excludes dailies and modifieds from Historic status.
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May 23, 2011 14:53:24 GMT
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That's only because it fits the current definition of the Historic class. If the definition changes then that won't be the case any more.
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May 23, 2011 14:17:57 GMT
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That's correct, in Germany it would be classed as a normal car , here we have no option to opt out from Historic . Sorry, Aceadvice, but that's simply not true. The current UK VED classifications are based on a number of special classes (such as Historic, PSV and so on) and a general case which includes anything not in a special case - this is what "normal" cars come under. So, unless they specifically legislated to make our cars illegal, losing Historic status because they change the definition would simply revert them all to general vehicles - no "opt out" required. Regarding emissions requirements and so on, these are separate from the VED status and contained in C&U regulations which are (almost) never applied retrospectively - no vehicle is expected to meet a higher technical standard that those when it was built. Which is why a "normal" (ie: not historic) car from, say, 1974, isn't required to meed current safety standards or the latest Cat emissions tests. Incidentally, I'm completely opposed to the idea of an EU definition on this, let alone the one that FIVA have proposed. It would raise the ridiculous situation where someone buys perhaps) the earliest surviving Rolls Royce - clearly a historically important vehicle - but it's historic value is legally denied just because the new owner decides to drive it too often. Allowing legalities to determine what is, or isn't historically important is not only absurd but potentially harmful. Regardless of the above, including inaccurate "scares" in any campaign is a foolish route to take - you'll obviously gain support from natural supporters because of the scare factor, but those outside already sympathetic circles will look, laugh, and likely discount any valid points you're making as those of nut-job conspiracy theorists. Which is very bad PR!
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Apr 25, 2011 10:54:35 GMT
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Well, the FBHVC may have officially abandoned us daily users but we're still welcome to fill out their next survey which opens on May 1st: fbhvc.co.uk/2011-survey/Even if a large response from daily users doesn't change their official stance, it will at least get our usage included in the statistics - would be a nightmare (and statistically very dubious) to try and remove responses from people they don't approve of. Seeing as they state that FIVA represents 1 million individuals across Europe and ACE estimate that the UK retro / modifying / "old car" base is around 2 million if we all go and fill it out we should make quite a dent in the results towards reflecting real usage patterns!
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Apr 14, 2011 18:08:25 GMT
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Had her in for her MOT today seeing as it was my birthday and...... She passed ;D ;D ;D That was a nice extra present! Went from the test immediately over to Sian's parents cos her mum wanted to see the new car, then over to Amlwch so the guy we got her off could see. So it was MOT followed by a 58 mile test drive. Snags picked up are: * She needs some choke even when warm - not at idle but when she's revving so suspect a partially blocked jet. * I forgot to check / set her vacuum valve linkage so she has no kickdown (makes hills a little sluggish, 746cc trying to pull you up hill in top gear until you drop below about 30mph!). No problem if you keep the momentum up though * There's a bad connection / earth somewhere bhind the dash which occasionally makes the flasher unit work and flashes the dash warning (though not the lights) and makes the temp gauge flick between cold and it's true reading while also making the fuel gauge flick between it's true reading and a full tank. * She doesn't like cranking over when hot so engine earths need checking That's not really a bad list for 33 years off road and all original bits, including plugs points and air filter
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Apr 11, 2011 21:10:28 GMT
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And there's more..... At this point there was a small problem of a stall (she's running weak so needs choke) followed by a flat battery (I'd forgotten the interior light while working on her today ) but a quick jump start off Betty got her going again easily enough. I then made the mistake of turning my back for a minute..... Yes, that's Sian stealing her! Obviously I jumped into Betty and gave chase, finally catching them so that Tilly and Betty could meet: This did give a chance to take a nice photo of her out in the sunshine - I just wish Alex from the workshop hadn't stayed sat in her, but he was hard to get out (apparently she's dead comfy like) Her battery is now on charge, and I need to check the brakes (they work fine but not sure if they're up to full efficiency) and check the headlamp alignment. Oh, and get her warm and set that mixture properly! Then she's booked in for MOT at 1pm on Thursday. If she passes it'll be the bestest birthday present ever ;D
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Almost there! Insurance is paid up and I hope to get her in for MOT later this week: ;D
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Apr 10, 2011 21:34:04 GMT
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Well there certainly isn't another one known about in the UK and as these where only sold in RHD to the UK it stands to reason that it may be the last. Suprising skoda exactly the same right down to the colourBut that one's a left hand drive ;D
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Agreed that there's nothing much to worry about, although some of it might involve the odd "tidy up" depending on the tester - what exactly constitutes effective support for wiring, especially aftermarket stuff for example?
The main thing is that there seems to be far more scope for tester discretion in there. No bad thing if your tester is a "proper" mechanic who makes informed decisions but could be a problem with the sort who do the course then follow Head Office policy. The "inappropriate repair or modification" one could cause a few headaches - seems like a bit of a Section 69 clause!
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We have progress! First things first, her V5 turned up today so I'm officially hers now Low mileage, only 2 previous owners, with the last change happening when she came off road on 1st May 1978. Could make a good selling point not that we're going to Next up is, the engine came out again today - I wasn't completely happy about the vibration at certain revs and also noticed while crawling around sorting oil leaks that the o/s engine mount was starting to separate. They'd looked ok out of the car but, with the engine weight on them, it was obviously not all that happy. So it had to come out. For the vibration, it seems that someone had hammered it in the past, probably trying to get it on because the rear splines are a bit tight. This might have had something to do with it: It didn't look all that bad in itself bu a fairly small dent there can distort the rubber: So the spline at that end wasn't in line with the prop tube - pretty well guaranteed to cause vibration! The replacement got checked very carefully before fitting because if there was any doubt I was prepared to pull a known good one out of our spares car but the only problem I could see was one rivet missing on a balance weight, which was a lot easier to sort than pulling another engine to get at a prop: Much reassembly later and..... no, no, no no vibrations [cut to Beach Boys] Happy with that, I had a look at her lack of charging. The dynamo was producing power with the output and field connected so that suggested a control box fault. Sure enough, the voltage regulator contacts were a little corroded, so the dynamo was effectively turned off all the time. A quick bit of wet & dry action has the light going out as it's meant to. Spurred on by these successes I rounded up the evening by refitting her grille. This was the one bit I forgot to clean up and paint, so it's had to go back on as is for now. There are some rust bubble on it, but nothing too obvious, and the paint match is pretty well spot on! The plan now is to blitz the rest of the reassembly over the weekend and try to get her in for MOT middle of the week. It's my birthday on Thursday and driving in for a shiny new tax disc would make a nice present to myself
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