Prescott Hillclimb review – Feedback request

[bstardchild]

All constructive comments and feedback welcome RELATED TO THE TRACK ACTIVITY ONLY

Right it’s that time again – we do this every year..........

As probably most will realise there are a team of us looking after the Hill – Rob (Judgie) Bill (Can’t remember his forum username) and myself. None of us could do it without the others and we work as a team having done these little activities for pretty much most of the events since 2009.

We are also very well assisted and incredibly grateful for the efforts of Polly (Mrs Judgie) and Tash (Mrs Keefy) in the sign on hut. Keefy and David organise the whole event and leave the paddock to us as on the day they are looking at the big show picture...

As part of the post event review we always look for feedback and comments from those of you who viewed and participated.

So last year the biggest issues were the number of people who didn’t get a go up the hill and wanted to and we listened to the suggestions offered as potential fixes.

So this year we did three things

1. Fixed the sign on time and we stuck to it – selling both sessions at the same time

2. Stopped anyone signing on for both sessions (unless it was a different driver in same car)

3. Increased the number of spaces for both morning and afternoon to what we thought was a reasonable amount. (the purpose of the increase was not to generate more sales but to meet the demand whilst still giving everyone a good number of runs)

We must still meet Prescott’s essential requirements

The return road must not be allowed to back up

There must be a path thro the paddock should emergency services need to go thro

We also have to adhere to Prescott’s Break times (1pm – 2pm) so morning session is 10am to 1pm and afternoon is 2pm to 4pm (it would be lovely to run to 5pm to equalise the session times or tweak the break time to even out the session time but neither are options)

What went well from our perspective

Morning session – once people got the hang of the lane running approach it went very smoothly – we had some issues with cars feeding into already filled lanes that had few cars in them as a result of it being that lanes turn having only joined after we started but we ironed that out by increasing the centre paddock area to 4 wide and as a result managed to reduce the number of cars in the final two lanes (where emergency services would go thro) and 70 cars as well as all the guest cars got a minimum of 4 runs in 3 hours of hill time, people in the queue early who got signed on and briefed before the hill opened I know got 5 runs.

Afternoon session – not so good – combination of off track incidents, ignoring red flags as well as cars sent back down the hill having to rejoin meant it wasn’t as smooth as the majority of the morning was. We had to resort to a convoy run after I had made sure everyone had had at least 2 proper runs (OK I messed up that for at least one long standing attendee and I’ll fix that next year) which actually turned out really well.
What we really did appreciate was the honesty of participants and the good natured way they let us bump a few of the last participants who had only had one run – cheers guys – big thumbs up - that was really nice and went a long way to making us feel much happier with the afternoon situation.

We are already thinking that 70 in the morning is a proven workable number but we should cap the afternoon to 50
We’d like to explore the opportunity of a convoy run at the start of the sessions but that’s not without it’s own issues bearing in mind the “tax disc” check implemented by Prescott staff.

Anyway enough from us - what we are keen to know is your perspective as participants and viewers from trackside

[mayoturbo]

Could the documents(MOT?) be checked before paying so there isn't the non retro cars next year?

[surprisingskoda]

A couple of people in the morning got 6 runs in I think!

I saw at the very start there was a couple of lanes that went a couple of times round before the rest joined in. Is there a potential to run one lane continuously so they get their five goes all done and dusted and can then dander off. keeps the cars up to temp and lets the drivers park up and go enjoy the rest of the show?

Only one complaint as a viewer. Having driven hundreds of miles overnight, slept 3 hours on a ferry and arrived on friday semi-comatose, I don;t then want to see 52-reg cars taking up valuable retro track time. I'm quite unapologetic about that, maybe other people don;t feel the same, but I personally don't like it. I didn't bring my '94 E34 into the show or onto the track as it's too modern, but plenty of people seemed to be lined up in their moderns to get a go. As I stand there with my camera watching everyday cars go up, I can't help but feel fleeting seconds of my life slip wastefully away waiting for the next Datsun or Opel to come flame-spewing round the hairpin.

[bstardchild]

Aug 20, 2013 21:53:53 GMT mayoturbo said:

Could the documents(MOT?) be checked before paying so there isn't the non retro cars next year?

We can certainly look at that but maybe it would be better to say pre a cetain date/model.....

I din't think it was that bad for moderns taking up track time - Mustang, SLK with an odd roof, EVO something and a pug 207 come to mind but I'm struggling after that but I'm not always concentrating on the cars??

[bstardchild]

Aug 20, 2013 21:57:00 GMT surprisingskoda said:

A couple of people in the morning got 6 runs in I think!

Maybe...... I wasn't keeping count but I know the first car up the hill did 5 runs

Aug 20, 2013 21:57:00 GMT surprisingskoda said:

I saw at the very start there was a couple of lanes that went a couple of times round before the rest joined in.

I know why you would think that but later arrivals filled the nearly empty lane that was vacated by the cars queuing to go up the hill and returning down the return road and the quickest way to fix it was to send them up and tell the drivers to come back and join lane 6

Aug 20, 2013 21:57:00 GMT surprisingskoda said:

Is there a potential to run one lane continuously so they get their five goes all done and dusted and can then dander off. keeps the cars up to temp and lets the drivers park up and go enjoy the rest of the show?

Plus and minus points jump to mind but it maybe has some potential would the people in lane 6 appreciate waitning till 1230 before they got the runs? A little time for the car and drive to cool down I'm sure helps keep the tempo down

Aug 20, 2013 21:57:00 GMT surprisingskoda said:

Only one complaint as a viewer. Having driven hundreds of miles overnight, slept 3 hours on a ferry and arrived on friday semi-comatose, I don;t then want to see 52-reg cars taking up valuable retro track time. I'm quite unapologetic about that, maybe other people don;t feel the same, but I personally don't like it. I didn't bring my '94 E34 into the show or onto the track as it's too modern, but plenty of people seemed to be lined up in their moderns to get a go. As I stand there with my camera watching everyday cars go up, I can't help but feel fleeting seconds of my life slip wastefully away waiting for the next Datsun or Opel to come flame-spewing round the hairpin.

As per previous reply - certainly look at that

[surprisingskoda]

Aug 20, 2013 22:59:12 GMT bstardchild said:

Aug 20, 2013 21:57:00 GMT surprisingskoda said:

A couple of people in the morning got 6 runs in I think!

Maybe...... I wasn't keeping count but I know the first car up the hill did 5 runs

I'm pretty sure the 02 went up 6 times!

Aug 20, 2013 22:59:12 GMT bstardchild said:

Aug 20, 2013 21:57:00 GMT surprisingskoda said:

Is there a potential to run one lane continuously so they get their five goes all done and dusted and can then dander off. keeps the cars up to temp and lets the drivers park up and go enjoy the rest of the show?

Plus and minus points jump to mind but it maybe has some potential would the people in lane 6 appreciate waitning till 1230 before they got the runs? A little time for the car and drive to cool down I'm sure helps keep the tempo down

If I was sitting in lane 6 I think I would be ok with knowing I had an hour, park the car in place, go off and have a chat or see some cars. I agree there are plus and minus, would be awful if people came back too late (tannoy could call them to readiness?). Cooling down is a plus point, the off side being the potential to thrash a car that's only just been started again and not warmed up. Might be smoother and get it all moved through quickly, might be a massive headache!

p.s. "modern cars" to me is pretty much in alignment with retro parking guidelines, '90 on sort of thing. So N reg Volvos are also included which makes the modern content a lot heavier by my count.

Otherwise superb!

[Deleted]

non retro cars parked in retro parking (keep it pre 90/91)
having to push cars off grass banks near hairpin due to steepness and ruts (retro parking)
not really intrested in seeing modern cars taking up track time (q8 volvo and caddilac are the exception)
priority given to cars leaving campsite to enter show ground

maybe an alternative food van burgers hotdogs etc (especially after the fire)
pre bookable track time for morning session

retro rides gathering 2013 (2014-2015 etc) car stickers for sale at prescott somewhere

more people should camp its a great atmosphere : )

[Keefy]

Can we keep this JUST about the hill action please.

It is my intention to have zero 'modern' cars going up the hill next year. Just as every year we try to reduce the number of modern cars in retro and club parking.

[claymore]

Aug 21, 2013 5:28:23 GMT Keefy said:

Can we keep this JUST about the hill action please.

It is my intention to have zero 'modern' cars going up the hill next year. Just as every year we try to reduce the number of modern cars in retro and club parking.

I did get 6 runs with a possibility of 7 according to Ian, but it would appear I won't get any next year (it still wouldn't stop me from coming to the best show of the year)

[bstardchild]

Aug 21, 2013 6:25:52 GMT claymore said:

Aug 21, 2013 5:28:23 GMT Keefy said:

Can we keep this JUST about the hill action please.

It is my intention to have zero 'modern' cars going up the hill next year. Just as every year we try to reduce the number of modern cars in retro and club parking.

I did get 6 runs with a possibility of 7 according to Ian, but it would appear I won't get any next year

That is the problem with a fixed date - your car has been part of this "community" for as long as I can remember and has attended and participated in many shows/track activities

This thread always has a risk of developing into a heated discussion and must not happen. I'd like constructive comments and please keep it pleasant, these feedback threads have helped us to improve the track activity side of the show over many years and we haven't ever had to lock one or delete posts and I'd like to keep it that way.

Remember too at the sign on hut the ladies don't see the cars just some documents and a driver/passenger - if someone can think of a way round this I'm all ears (I have got big ears too ) I have an idea on how we do this but I'm very interested in what you all have to offer.

I am even really interested in what the driver who did one run up the hill in the afternoon very early and then after several stoppages walked up to me in the paddock and said how do I get a refund because there is no way you are going to get me another run up the hill and that's curse word poor value compared to the morning session. I said we should still get all the cars up for 3 runs but he walked back to his car got in and drove out of the paddock........... I was really dissappointed by that.

[bstardchild]

Just selecting the relevant points

Aug 20, 2013 23:57:50 GMT @mjp said:

not really intrested in seeing modern cars taking up track time (q8 volvo and caddilac are the exception)

Already we have exceptions But you aren't alone in your view so tell me how you would manage that with a small team of people helping manage this side of the event - Constructive comments will always be appreciated

Aug 20, 2013 23:57:50 GMT @mjp said:

pre bookable track time for morning session

Considered this in the past as it worked at previous events however it has a big downside if too many of the weekend campers pre-booked then what would be left for anyone turning up on the day no matter how much effort they made to get to the show early enough for sign on. Just another viewpoint as we don't think it's an option at Prescott

[judgie]

re the pre 90 cut off point. how would we police that? the girls in the sign on office have enough to do with out having to work out how old a car is. they both know there cars but can only go on what there being told by the person signing on. we also had a few late cars that looked great going up the hill, the above Volvo being one of them.
some of the hold up in the afternoon was drivers not being ready and in the holding area on time, i noticed some cars turning up for afternoon runs as late as 3 oclock which we then had to try and feed in and get you running.
we are tight on time in the afternoon and you need to be ready at 2 oclock and in the holding area.
we seemed to have more offs in the afternoon as well which held us up even more.
we had 3 moderns sign on late in the afternoon session as we had some spare places that no one else wanted, these were sold after 3 oclock and they got 1 run.
I hope all that ran enjoyed it as much as i enjoyed it.

[kevfromwales]

re the whole 'moderns on the hill' thing

I was pretty ropey on the sunday, so can't remember exactly who I was chatting to, but we were talking about this very problem

the person who has to make 'the call' is always going to be caught in the middle, same with the hot rod drags and their 'pre 69/72 unless radical' call

I saw very little hill action this year, but I did notice a few stock moderns going up, gold late mx5 springs to mind - but then gain they are probably more track orientated than a nissan prairie or a ford f250

from me having only a passenger perspective this year (wouldn't have dreampt of taking my stock tds e36 bmw up) - I thought the pits etc ran very well as usual, there's always going to be a few excursions into the gravel - it can't be helped

maybe advising people that hillclimb cars should be 'in the spirit of RR' could work? - I for one would be gutted if claymore's awesome volvo wasn't running the hill

-kfw

[HoTWire]

The way we sort out what gets to go up the hill is fine, if it is in Retro Parking or on a Club Stand then it is eligible for the hill. I have no problem with a couple of modern cars from the club stands hitting the hill, particularly if they are interesting as a comparison to the older stuff going up, or radically modified. Date cut offs don't work for us (I wish they did, but they don't).

The onus falls on the club stand area to make sure that it is all withing the Spirit of RR, which is where this issue will be resolved.

One of the other things that has a bit of a knock on effect is that we are one of the few (or maybe the only!?) events to run in this format, which means if you have a modern car and want to RWYB the hill then you need to get your way onto a club stand and sign on. However we hope to be running another event next year (still in the planning and negotiation stages) which will be able to service these folk, so that should relive the pressure a bit.

[chrisdcapri]

Speaking as a spectator this is the third RRG I've been to, it gets better each time and I really enjoyed it. Don't be too down about the afternoon session, some spin offs are always going to happen - it's unavoidable, but incidents were dealt with swiftly by Prescott staff and RR team. I do agree it would be a good idea to reduce the number of cars in the afternoon.

With regards to "modern" cars I couldn't help feeling a little resentful watching stock mid 90's stuff taking up track time (although looking back at pictures there didn't seem to be as much modern stuff as I thought) Perhaps it would be possible to restrict the date of cars entering, if they have to produce documentation - MOTs etc. then the vehicle reg. date should be apparent. A small number of places could be held back for sort of wild card entries i.e relatively modern stuff that is particularly awesome such as Clymore's Volvo(this NEEDS to be on the hill) These places could be applied for and allocated in advance. I realise this would place (probably unwelcome) responsibility of "choosing" participants on the organisers, but I can't see a way of keeping everyone happy. Anyway enough of my ramblings - BRILLIANT show, really looking forward to next year.

[kevfromwales]

Aug 21, 2013 8:03:54 GMT HoTWire said:

The way we sort out what gets to go up the hill is fine, if it is in Retro Parking or on a Club Stand then it is eligible for the hill. I have no problem with a couple of modern cars from the club stands hitting the hill, particularly if they are interesting as a comparison to the older stuff going up, or radically modified. Date cut offs don't work for us (I wish they did, but they don't).

The onus falls on the club stand area to make sure that it is all withing the Spirit of RR, which is where this issue will be resolved.

without taking this away from the hillclimb feedback, this was another thing that was discussed on the sunday - I walked down a row of the showfield with a well known RR member, and until we got to the end and saw ryan's f100 pickup, there was very little we'd consider 'retro'

- the phrase 'I wouldn't look at that if I saw it in tesco's car park' might have been used

- and while I realise the decision as to what to let onto the showfield cannot please everyone, then using that decision as a base for the track action...hhhmmmm

not trying to be a whinger here, genuinely trying to be objective as asked for above - I love the gathering, and the hillclimb - and god knows I've taken some curse word up the hill and round the track at haynes!

-kfw

[claymore]

I think the problem with the two Olive green Volvo 850s was the fact that they looked completely standard (unless you opened the bonnet) but in the spirit, the Volvo 850 did come out in 1991 so even if they were 1996 cars the model was just about retro.

[smurph323]

it was my first time in the paddock awaiting my turn up the hill.. and when i arrived in the queue's i did notice the lanes to my left coming and going before i got a chance to go up the hill... i think i missed out on a sighting lap.? wasnt aware of there being one.

the modern issue isnt a massive one (as not too many moderns went up the hill) but its worth pointing out as I'm sure we all agree we don't want to see any more moderns... the interesting ones were ok, who complains watching an evo taking on the hill.. but cars like the 207 made me wonder.
something very interesting may have not made it onto the track in its place etc etc.


my main concern was that i missed out on a few runs, and some got extra's. i know its hard to organise and you all did a great job, chaps in the paddock/ ladies on signing in very friendly and only added to the great atmosphere on the day.
but..... if the tickets were sold on a 3 runs basis, everyone would get same amount of runs. the lanes woudl still work but your given a ticket which you punch holes in it each run, when its run out time to leave the paddock.
you would probably be able to fit more cars in, and any spare time before lunch could be sold just like in the afternoon session.

obvioulsy a hard and fast rule would be one ticket (3 runs) per person. not only would it keep it fair for the drivers but also on the spectators who want to see the diversity of cars etc.

[berendd]

the 850's were awesome, pls don't let them be stopped going up the hill.

as long as there's a vast majority of retro's a couple of more modern cars are just fine, especially if they're modified... I guess about the same rules are valid as the for sale section on the forum, everything in "not very interesting or modern" should not go up the hill.

having a couple of cars do the run 5 times and then switching to the next line could be an interesting option, would give people that do some track action also give the opportunity to see the rest of the show.

And if there's an accident or problem, just let people continue to the top and get back in line, when theres just a couple of cars to wait for its not really a problem but it does speed things up. having to turn round, head back and turn round again is not very efficient.

I've not been involved in the track action myself, but i hope this helps to make it better next year.. (hope to bring a track worthy car next year)

[oog]

To equal out the morning and afternoon sessions and avoid anyone complaining about the disparity, how about having the hour before lunch taken up by club processions up the hill. I spoke to a lot of people that fancied a drive up the hill but weren't bothered about going full tilt or repeated runs.