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Nice to see so much effort being put into keeping a Carlton on the road. Having owned several in the past, reading this makes me want another! My last GSi had the most rot free shell I'd ever seen, and I managed to crash it backwards into a wall (on a track I might add!).
Good luck with this one, keep up the good work!
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I reckon you should've weighed the Carlton before you started welding to see how different the weight was when you finish. I feel that it will be probably twice the weight once it's finished... Nice welding though, keep up the good work fella! I read that as should have weighed it in before starting  , it had crossed my mind.
The finished shell will weight almost exactly what it should do when I'm finished because I cut the old metal out and usually make properly fitting repairs in the right thickness (used 0.8, 1.0, 1.2, 1.5 and 2.0 so far). I used to have a source for those thicknesses or I might have compromised to be fair.
It will be heavier than before I started though as holes don't weigh as much as steel, on the other hand that might have been cancelled out by having four sills.
The finished car will hopefully be lighter than at the start due to some lightening effort, deleted unnecessary stuff like cruise, headlight wipers, a lot of wet foam from the floors etc and lots of lots of trim going including headlining, eventually sunroof and heavy seats too.
That middle sill is an awful thing to fix, I reckon that very few people putting sills on do it at all, who would know later? I guess the result would be less rigidity and therefore poorer handling. Mine aren't repaired in an attractive way but they should provide the strength they were designed to do. |
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Nice to see so much effort being put into keeping a Carlton on the road. Having owned several in the past, reading this makes me want another! My last GSi had the most rot free shell I'd ever seen, and I managed to crash it backwards into a wall (on a track I might add!). Good luck with this one, keep up the good work! I will do thank you.
I think I remember some of yours from ABS or TC.
That rust free crashed shell would be a great source of pieces to cut out to repair other cars.
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Nice to see so much effort being put into keeping a Carlton on the road. Having owned several in the past, reading this makes me want another! My last GSi had the most rot free shell I'd ever seen, and I managed to crash it backwards into a wall (on a track I might add!). Good luck with this one, keep up the good work! I will do thank you.
I think I remember some of yours from ABS or TC.
That rust free crashed shell would be a great source of pieces to cut out to repair other cars.
I sold that car about 5 years ago to another RR member. It was still driveable at the time, so sold it as spares. Think the engine ended up in a mk1 Cavalier and I'm sure the shell was scrapped. The engine was an absolute belter, 3.0 12v gold-top straight out of a Senator with decent exhaust and air filter, easily the best 12v I'd owned. Used to keep up with 24v's no bother, but then it was over 200kgs lighter than a standard car! |
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I will do thank you.
I think I remember some of yours from ABS or TC.
That rust free crashed shell would be a great source of pieces to cut out to repair other cars.
I sold that car about 5 years ago to another RR member. It was still driveable at the time, so sold it as spares. Think the engine ended up in a mk1 Cavalier and I'm sure the shell was scrapped. The engine was an absolute belter, 3.0 12v gold-top straight out of a Senator with decent exhaust and air filter, easily the best 12v I'd owned. Used to keep up with 24v's no bother, but then it was over 200kgs lighter than a standard car! What sort of things did it loose to get that weight reduction, its something I'm considering as a future move, just wondering if there are any ideas I might miss?
Next a door repair couldn’t be avoided, I don’t plan to make the car tidy and that means most of the doors can be left alone until any future decision to make it look nice.
You might have spotted in the pics above that the drivers side rear door couldn’t be left, the skin flapping about like the sole of a tramps shoe.
Annoyingly I sold a near enough mint estate rear door a while ago for next to nothing and as only the top frame is different I wish I’d kept it.
Good Carlton doors aren’t all that common now and of course are a pain to transport and would probably need paint so I didn’t bother to try to get one.
I did have another not so good estate door and took it apart to consider using the bits to repair mine but it wasn’t good enough really.
There seems to be a few pic missing but here are a few of patching it up.
For the bottom inner corner it should have the end of this swage line, I cut a piece from half way up the donor door, slit into the swage and hammered it flat to replicate what I wanted, you can just see the closed up slit, welded later.
I chopped out bits at a time and made some repairs from new steel and also reused bits of the donor door.
Here that corner is in and so is some of the bottom, the purple paint gives the sourceof the steel away, the piece to be welded is also from the donor door but the purple is on the other side.
Bzzt bzzt with the welder some more and a bit of grinder noise.
For the skin I had bought a repair panel, that would be the third bought piece so far I think. I only used a tiny bit of it, a bit of a waste.
No pic without a bit of protective primer I’m afraid.
The scores on the door – I thought at this point that I had finished welding with the patch count now at 168.
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stevietuck
Posted a lot
Never argue with idiots,they drag you down to their level then beat you with their expertise!
Posts: 1,350
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Love these cars, my bro had one in the late 90s what a beast of a car! Keep up the good work mate, good to see one being saved |
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This is EPIC...!!!
Great stuff...
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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Speedle
Posted a lot
Need a Country Rock band in the Hampshire Area? https://www.facebook.com/DirtRoadDiaryUK
Posts: 2,221
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Superb repair skills! Totally worth saving as these are just so rare now. There's a nice solid blue estate in my works car park though which is always nice to see. Great effort all round, that door repair also looks spot on!
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I sold that car about 5 years ago to another RR member. It was still driveable at the time, so sold it as spares. Think the engine ended up in a mk1 Cavalier and I'm sure the shell was scrapped. The engine was an absolute belter, 3.0 12v gold-top straight out of a Senator with decent exhaust and air filter, easily the best 12v I'd owned. Used to keep up with 24v's no bother, but then it was over 200kgs lighter than a standard car! What sort of things did it loose to get that weight reduction, its something I'm considering as a future move, just wondering if there are any ideas I might miss?
All normal seats removed, fronts replaced with lightweight bucket seats. All carpets removed. All tar pads & sound deadening removed. All electric window motors removed, rears riveted permanently shut, fronts replaced with manual winders from a poverty spec model. All central locking solenoids removed and associated wiring. All doorcards removed, fronts replaced with the inner plastic sheets gaffer taped on. All speakers and radio wiring removed. Headlining and sunroof cartridge removed and replaced with panel pop riveted to the outer side of roof. Electric mirrors removed and replaced with non-electric poverty spec ones. Standard exhaust and cats replaced with single-pipe Scorpion system. Rear spoiler, sill skirts, door trims and front wing flashes removed. Fog lights removed. Ended up looking like this:   |
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All normal seats removed, fronts replaced with lightweight bucket seats. All carpets removed. All tar pads & sound deadening removed. All electric window motors removed, rears riveted permanently shut, fronts replaced with manual winders from a poverty spec model. All central locking solenoids removed and associated wiring. All doorcards removed, fronts replaced with the inner plastic sheets gaffer taped on. All speakers and radio wiring removed. Headlining and sunroof cartridge removed and replaced with panel pop riveted to the outer side of roof. Electric mirrors removed and replaced with non-electric poverty spec ones. Standard exhaust and cats replaced with single-pipe Scorpion system. Rear spoiler, sill skirts, door trims and front wing flashes removed. Fog lights removed. Man alive that sounds pretty raw and hardcore... I did this to one of my Talbots about 25 years ago! Stuck it out for about 6 months before bolting all the interior back in. The rattling of the engine was amplified by the rattling of everything else in the interior! I couldn't stand it, and i've never even been tempted to have a car with a completely stripped interior since! Hats off to you fella, just out of interest, do you know what the weight difference is between your Carlton when it was as the manufactures left it, and your Superleggera version? |
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good old klokkerholm  almost single handedly keeping our shonky opels on the road |
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,975
Club RR Member Number: 71
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All normal seats removed, fronts replaced with lightweight bucket seats. All carpets removed. All tar pads & sound deadening removed. All electric window motors removed, rears riveted permanently shut, fronts replaced with manual winders from a poverty spec model. All central locking solenoids removed and associated wiring. All doorcards removed, fronts replaced with the inner plastic sheets gaffer taped on. All speakers and radio wiring removed. Headlining and sunroof cartridge removed and replaced with panel pop riveted to the outer side of roof. Electric mirrors removed and replaced with non-electric poverty spec ones. Standard exhaust and cats replaced with single-pipe Scorpion system. Rear spoiler, sill skirts, door trims and front wing flashes removed. Fog lights removed. Man alive that sounds pretty raw and hardcore... I did this to one of my Talbots about 25 years ago! Stuck it out for about 6 months before bolting all the interior back in. The rattling of the engine was amplified by the rattling of everything else in the interior! I couldn't stand it, and i've never even been tempted to have a car with a completely stripped interior since! Hats off to you fella, just out of interest, do you know what the weight difference is between your Carlton when it was as the manufactures left it, and your Superleggera version? I took a Monza down from 1500 Kgs to 1300 doing pretty much the same thing - but I added 75 kgs of roll cage so fitted plastic windows, ditched lights and got a bit more aggressive with other weight to get it down to 1200 again. Carlton is similar weight to Monza - around 1500 kgs |
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Thanks for your kind words Stevie, Grifterkid and Speedle
Darren H, Klokkerholm, to be fair at least they do something for these cars so I shouldn't complain but through all of the above work only 3 parts were available that were of use. Owners of old Opels aren't very well served at all compared to the likes of VW and Ford.
The quality isn't great but its a long way better starting point than nothing.
I was amused to buy some Klokkerholm sills and under their sticker was one saying Made in Rochdale, cant remember the company name but I assume they have bought stock from other people who no longer bother with our cars and rebadge it as their own.
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Thanks Craig and BC, very informative posts, I,ve learned quite a few things.
Firstly I had wondered if exercise window handles were available for these, I've never seen them, same for mirrors. I know some of the electricals don't work but have no idea which ones. To start with I will be getting it on the road and trying to get everything working (just to not be beaten) but later if it goes the lightweight route will definitely want some of those items. If the windows are already shot I might do it sooner rather than later.
I have already removed the carpets and sound deadening, they were all soaked and spoiled and at the minute there is no plan to replace them. The floor is getting stonechip then body colour on the inside then just some mats.
The headlining is gone as are the pillar trims etc, I would really like to remove the sunroof as I don't like them anyway and they are heavy, I really like the idea of the challenge of welding a piece in though but the risk of ruining the roof is huge so I plan to take advice on how to do it. I'm thinking use a section of Carlton roof, very accurate fitting and TIG weld in with minimal or no filler rod (or body filler). It could be a disaster.
Its very interesting to read about how much you both had to strip out compared to the percentage weight loss, it isn't easy at all it seems to lighten one significantly. I'll get it on the road then decide how far to go, I need to enjoy it on the road most importantly. Having felt the weight I think the seats are an easy big gain, I'll think about that.
The body plastics and radio definitely wont be going though.
I had thought about a roll cage further into the future so as an absolute minimum cancelling that out has to be done.
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All normal seats removed, fronts replaced with lightweight bucket seats. All carpets removed. All tar pads & sound deadening removed. All electric window motors removed, rears riveted permanently shut, fronts replaced with manual winders from a poverty spec model. All central locking solenoids removed and associated wiring. All doorcards removed, fronts replaced with the inner plastic sheets gaffer taped on. All speakers and radio wiring removed. Headlining and sunroof cartridge removed and replaced with panel pop riveted to the outer side of roof. Electric mirrors removed and replaced with non-electric poverty spec ones. Standard exhaust and cats replaced with single-pipe Scorpion system. Rear spoiler, sill skirts, door trims and front wing flashes removed. Fog lights removed. Man alive that sounds pretty raw and hardcore... I did this to one of my Talbots about 25 years ago! Stuck it out for about 6 months before bolting all the interior back in. The rattling of the engine was amplified by the rattling of everything else in the interior! I couldn't stand it, and i've never even been tempted to have a car with a completely stripped interior since! Hats off to you fella, just out of interest, do you know what the weight difference is between your Carlton when it was as the manufactures left it, and your Superleggera version? Well at the time I was doing a few track days and couldn't afford to up the BHP of the engine, in fact I'd gone the opposite way as the original 24v engine (204bhp) I had replaced with a 12v unit (177bhp) due to reliability issues with the two 24v engines I originally had. So I needed to gain some of the power to weight ratio back, removing weight is the easiest way, and mostly free. It probably helped that I got the car for free with odd coloured doors, no bodykit and some of the interior missing, plus it had already had uprated springs and dampers fitted, so removing the rest of the interior was a fairly easy decision to make. I usually had another car to drive everyday anyway, but the extra noise it made never bothered me as it was such a nice noise! To be honest it wasn't completely in your face, it was actually quite docile and relatively quiet at low revs, progressively changing to deafening the harder you drove it. It was quite hot in the summer though, the sound deadening also acts as heat insulation, and towards the end I painted it satin black which made it 20 times worse. Still the one car I'd have back tomorrow, if it still existed. |
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Thanks Craig and BC, very informative posts, I,ve learned quite a few things. Firstly I had wondered if exercise window handles were available for these, I've never seen them, same for mirrors. I know some of the electricals don't work but have no idea which ones. To start with I will be getting it on the road and trying to get everything working (just to not be beaten) but later if it goes the lightweight route will definitely want some of those items. If the windows are already shot I might do it sooner rather than later. I got my keep fit door winders from a LHD german spec car I bought for spares. I know the Carlton "Club" model had keep fit rear winders, but I'm not aware of any other UK-spec Carltons that had keep fit front winders. The only other cars that had them that I can immediately recall were the Police-spec Senators, they had manual winders front and rear, but finding one for spares isn't going to be easy these days, unless someone has the winders in their garage. |
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My 1987 2.0 GL didn't have electric windows. I thought back then they didn't come on the L or GL models
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omegod
Part of things
Posts: 166
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Think there is a carlton estate in a scrappy in Warrrington if thats anywhere near you ? I'll look at the front windows next time i'm there but it looked boggo spec
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It looks like a low spec car might be able to donate some winders then, thanks for the info.
I'm nowhere near Warrington but thanks for the tip off.
There is no hurry for winders, loads to be going on with at the minute, its the sort of thing I might look to sort out in the winter.
What I do need is a boot seal if anyone has one around, mine is totally shot due to the state the boot lip was in. I checked and an estate seal is a completely different profile.
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, it had crossed my mind.
almost single handedly keeping our shonky opels on the road 