Paul Y
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,948
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I saw the York set up on the Hamb a few years back and am amazed that is not a more common route taken for trouble free bagging. Nice work Dez, wonder if you will be able to hop with it? P.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 2,001
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Does the pump need any kind of lubrication?
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I saw the York set up on the Hamb a few years back and am amazed that is not a more common route taken for trouble free bagging. Nice work Dez, wonder if you will be able to hop with it? P. i don't understand why more don't use it either, given the expense of viairs, and their propensity to sieze up. I'm not sure if it'll hop the front, fully expect it to chip the rear though.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Does the pump need any kind of lubrication? no, it has its own. its not *quite* as simple as that, you need to do some mods to manage the lubricant and keep it in the right place, but ill cover that as i get to it. as theres been a bit of interest in this, ill make sure i cover the whys and wherefores as i do it.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 2,001
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I was thinking of using something similar coupled to a Ford Cologne V4 in a small service trailer to tow behind my Saab 95 V4 van. I guess it needs an oiler on the air in line and a separator on the line out and a feed back into the oiler. I guess normally the freon is what keeps things lubed?
Although you're not exactly building "my" type of vehicles, your threads are a joy to read. Keep up the good work!
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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tonup
Part of things
Posts: 39
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Interesting build Dez, looking forward to your updates! Nice thinking on the pcl, if you ever brake down and run out of air, and need recovery, you could carry a male/female adaptor to put air in to raise it up. Are you sure about the valve/pipe sizes? I use valves like these on machinery at work. The orifice size is the hole in the centre of the valve and 1/2" bsp/npt fittings are just that, 1/2" bore?
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I was thinking of using something similar coupled to a Ford Cologne V4 in a small service trailer to tow behind my Saab 95 V4 van. I guess it needs an oiler on the air in line and a separator on the line out and a feed back into the oiler. I guess normally the freon is what keeps things lubed? Although you're not exactly building "my" type of vehicles, your threads are a joy to read. Keep up the good work! the freon did provide some lube as standard, but the issue is that pistons have no oil control rings, so sump oil can migrate into the system- not a problem with the a/c as its a closed loop so the oil just circulates. so theres no need to add an oiler, what you need is to remove the oil from the system, so your valves, tank and bags don't fill up with it. common way to do this is added a coalescing filter after the pump, and then add a drain line from the filter drain back into the side of the compressor sump. this has to have a tap on it though so you don't pressurise the sump. just open it every now and then when you can see oil sitting in it, let it return then do it back up. pretty simple really and the only 'maintenance' as such that the system requires. Interesting build Dez, looking forward to your updates! Nice thinking on the pcl, if you ever brake down and run out of air, and need recovery, you could carry a male/female adaptor to put air in to raise it up. Are you sure about the valve/pipe sizes? I use valves like these on machinery at work. The orifice size is the hole in the centre of the valve and 1/2" bsp/npt fittings are just that, 1/2" bore? it seems it depends on what the fittings are intended for. most of the water/air ones seem to go with the enlarged orifice size(!), whilst hydraulic tend to stick to true sizes and use the big difference in bore and thread diameter to provide a swivel. there seems to be exceptions either way though.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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minor progress in between paid work this week. the new axle has been debracketed, cleaned up and smoothed out ready for narrowing. lots of grinding. the brackets werent light duty and the guy who put em on didnt go lightly with the welder either. whats more, he could actually weld, so they were well stuck on. then, with a chevy truck kicked out the door with new brakes all round, i had space to move the car inside. i removed the front springs, shocks and bumpstops (a complete jamco lowering package which i think ive sold), plus the inner wings. inner wings didnt need to come out yet as the tyres still clear, but they wont once the spindles are dropped, and it was much easier to get the suspension apart without them in the way. this is with the bumpstop mounts on the A-arms(which are yet to be removed giving more drop) sat on the chassis rails. you can see there i was sizing up a Y block sump as well. theres still 5" to the crossmember at the mo- stage two of the spindle carrier and A-arm mods should see me that much though, so it lays out. good news is theres absolutely tons of room for the bags. RE5s will fit no problem, i could maybe even squeeze a RE6 in with no clearancing. i know its the shocks that will be the issue though. the front end all seems in fairly good nick too. the suspension has definately been gone through at some point, it could do with a few new seals now though, but they're peanuts. bodywork isnt too bad either, theres a few grotty bits i knew about, but no nasty surprises so far.
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Last Edit: Jul 9, 2016 12:53:35 GMT by Dez
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 2,001
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the freon did provide some lube as standard, [...] I was thinking along similar lines, you just worded it a bit clearer.
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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diff
South East
Posts: 1,169
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Dez , don't know if this is any use but I have in the shed the stock uprights and steering arms from when I fitted the Fat Man Fabrications set up to my Shoebox . Maybe of use to modify and keep your stock ones to roll the car about .
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Watching with interest, looking forward to finding out more about your air set up
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jul 10, 2016 19:16:22 GMT
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Dez , don't know if this is any use but I have in the shed the stock uprights and steering arms from when I fitted the Fat Man Fabrications set up to my Shoebox . Maybe of use to modify and keep your stock ones to roll the car about . That would be most excellent. I plan to make a jig to heat and bend them properly, rather than the way most 'muricans do it, so as you say it'll be ideal for keeping the car mobile. You ain't miles away from me are you?
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diff
South East
Posts: 1,169
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Jul 10, 2016 19:41:29 GMT
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Dez , don't know if this is any use but I have in the shed the stock uprights and steering arms from when I fitted the Fat Man Fabrications set up to my Shoebox . Maybe of use to modify and keep your stock ones to roll the car about . That would be most excellent. I plan to make a jig to heat and bend them properly, rather than the way most 'muricans do it, so as you say it'll be ideal for keeping the car mobile. You ain't miles away from me are you? Southend mate , not far from the big Tesco .
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jul 14, 2016 21:24:47 GMT
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That would be most excellent. I plan to make a jig to heat and bend them properly, rather than the way most 'muricans do it, so as you say it'll be ideal for keeping the car mobile. You ain't miles away from me are you? Southend mate , not far from the big Tesco . yeah i know the area pretty well. i'll PM you about coming down.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jul 14, 2016 21:52:30 GMT
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well, the past week or so has been nuts, but in between other jobs ive collated all the bits i have laying round for this(which ahs made the workshop a hell of a lot tidier!), roughly bolted them together for mockup, and plonked them in the hole. started with a fairly unknown 272ci block i got as part of a trade a couple of years back. all seemed ok and was bought as a runner, except i found it had odd heads which i wasnt happy with, so i pulled it part to see what was going on. valves were 1/4" bigger in one head than the other, plus one bank had high ratio rockers and the other didnt! it has been like that for quite a few years too by the looks, bet it idled a bit lumpy! but i dropped the sump and its spanking clean inside, plus its overbored 0.60", actually making it 281c.i. displacement. but, i had a spare pair of fairly freshly rebuilt heads cut for big valves, with new valves, springs, etc. they came out of a pink '57 T-bird over bristol way. the engine was freshly rebuilt with documentation before leaving the states, i bought the remains of the engine after it had been driven round by the woman who owned it, without even so much as checking the oil in her ownership. apparently it lasted 18 months before throwing a rod, damaging the block slightly (i think itll go again) bending another rod and trashing the crank. and it drove another 30 miles to the place were it was fixed after it went bang as well! heads are perfect though so they're going on this. manifold is my 'spare' edelbrock 2x4 setup. original 50s manifold topped with a matched pair of black-tag carter 500cfm competition series carbs off a hi-output corvette topped with period correct stellings air cleaners. exhaust manifolds are some borrowed rams horns to check for clearance. the car type mnifolds ive got wont clear the steering on the driver side. as you can also see i intend to run power steering, as well as the on board air. here it all is anyway- sump is currently off, and its blocked up between crossmember and block with a 3" block of wood. this sits the motor quite high, but it means nothing will hang down do i wont do any damage when laying frame. nothing hangs down underneath. lowest point will be bottom of flywheel cover, not the sump. motor height pic- you can also see there the fairly favourable location of the stock shoebox motor mounts for making a front motor mount plate that goes in the stock truck mounting location off the front of the timing cover. i wont be cutting up the steering as per the '50s mag article. ive sized up both a car and a truck sump, and I'm going to chop up the car(front bowl) sump to make a mid-bowl sump as the flathead had. with a bit of fettling, youd never know it had been done. so with that in mind, ive positioned the engine so the steering clears the flywheel cover nicely, and i have some dizzy to firewall clearance- this looks as though it will still leave enough room for a stock Y block fan(albeit fixed blade and not the later style viscous), and the stock shoebox rad in its proper location. the hardest bit is going to be the exhaust, especially on the drivers side. with where ive positioned the motor, i can get a straight shot off the centre exit rams horns, between the back of the crossmember and the steering box. then once down next to the sump it can bend and head off down the car. exact route yet to be decided, it may have to dive over/under the rails and run down the outside of them to clear the clutch linkage, shift linkage and master cyl, i don't really know until the car gets some ramp time and i can size it up. but on the whole, fairly straight forward once the mounts are made- I'm waiting on new rubber mounts from the states first though. I'm pretty pleased that 1.- it looks badass and 2.- it all fits even with the chassis being capable of sitting on the floor.
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Last Edit: Jul 14, 2016 21:59:07 GMT by Dez
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jul 30, 2016 19:38:57 GMT
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marked out 2 sets of lowness on this half sheet of 4mm plate that was laying around (after much dicking around measuring up and making templates). one set is for me, the other for georges '57 chevy truck. then i went here for a bit, which slowed up progress somewhat as the car was 1600 miles away. but when i came back, things! this is pretty cool, something i happened upon by chance whilst looking for something else. its an oil take off plate to replace the filter housing which gets in the way of the steering, so i don't have to shorten it like in the '50s article. turns out these swaps were so popular that at one time offy tooled up and made these, although they're long out of production. this one is new old stock still in the packet from the '60s, an even came with a period sticker! tinda makes up a bit for getting stung for duties by the RM. id also bought a deluxe horn ring a while back (though was thankfully shipped ebay global!), and it turned up whilst i was away. the one on looked like this- which is base spec so not original. i think this car has had a lot of the nicer deluxe bits robbed off a couple of owners back, as i know they had another shoebox. i think theyd swapped the whole wheel, evidenced by the nut holding it on only being finger tight. but, i bought the right one, which looks much better and also hides a lot of the cracks on the steering wheel until i get round to refurbing it. new one- it has some minor crazing and pitting, but it was cheap enough and tbh i don't want it to look brand new. meanwhile, amazon had turned up this- known in shoebox circles as 'the green bible'. its an original copy not a reprint, which reveals how it got its nickname. as well as being the definitive source on repairing a shoebox, its also printed on that funny old shiny super thin paper like cheap bibles used to be. i bloody love old shop manuals like this though, they simply don't make em like this anymore. the things it details how to test and fix are amazing. it even details how to test a starter/dynamo armature to ascertain which coil is shorted and rewind it! lastly, i picked up anther fairly elusive part. i needed a pretty specific volvo steering box, a power steering box off a left hand drive volvo 164. its pretty much the only steering box that will fit in place of the stocker, turns the right way, and gives power steering. this whole setup is made even tighter by it being a Y block rahter than a flathead in there, but as the power steering circuit hangs off the bak of the box where the column enters, it will still fit. there used to be kits for them available in the states but they're now pretty damn difficult to get anywhere, so i was rather pleased when a contact of berendd s in the Netherlands managed to source and ship me one, including a section of column to help mate it up. so as well as a 'modern' motor, I'm going to have some of that newfangled power steering as well!
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berendd
Europe
why do I need 3 keys for one car?
Posts: 1,449
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hopefully it's a good one! Hadn't even seen this build before, looking good! captainsideburns fixed this one for you (he occasionally lurks on the forum here as well)
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Not updated this for ages but there has been bits of progress between other stuff. First, a very rare and important part came in from the states. It don't look like much, but it's a genuine factory fit new old stock twin accessory pulley for a thunderbird. This would only have been fitted for about two years, and then only to cars with both power steering AND air conditioning. It was only available for 2 years as A/C only came in as an option two years before they changed over to a different motor, so as it was a new thing take up of it was fairly small, especially in cars that were mostly convertables. Either way, it's just what I need to allow me to run power steering and the on-board air, all on separate belts.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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The C-notch plates they were previously marked out all got cut out, clamped together and ground up as one so they're all identical. Still clamped together here- Then separated- Then i trimmed the floor out on both sides, all the way from the seat back braces to the body mount on the back of the wheel arch, seperating it where it joins the arch by popping the spot welds- And here's one of the plates offered into place. Hopefully that's the slightly odd shape of them explained, they're going to run straight up the seat back (which I'm going to bulkhead in with a sheet of steel), kick across level for the crossmember, then swoop down back into the original slope of the chassis rail, rather than cut in at an angle. They will gain me 6" of drop, enough To lay out even with very tall cross plies.
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Last Edit: Dec 3, 2016 10:37:56 GMT by Dez
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Then, I decided I needed my tyres fitted so I have a rolling diameter reference for setting the ride height and clearances. So the wheels where removed (easier said than done on a leaf spring rear end that's this low), had the old tyres removed and thrown away, went off for blasting. They had a few dings removed and one had a damaged lip welded up once they came back, then they looked like this- There a little bit of pitting but mostly in unseen places like the rim bed and on the backs, tbh they're not bad for a 66 year old set of steels. The George threw some etch on them for me. They should be painted fully this week if he gets time. Meanwhile I've been prepping more bits to go to the blasters. I've gouged the thick filler out of the bonnet( the old recess for the bonnet trim has been smoothed by gobbling it full of filler. I plan to fill and peak it properly in steel) and I've also stripped all the front end panels of fixtures and fittings, so everything firewall forward will be dropped off to him next week.
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Last Edit: Dec 3, 2016 10:36:09 GMT by Dez
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