Charlie's Echo/Madam Mayhem - glacial Bedford RL project

[Rich]

Nov 1, 2019 17:57:12 GMT PhilA said:

Nov 1, 2019 17:09:19 GMT Rich said:

It is and isn't. It is a bit deceptively small looking in the pics, they are not tiny motors by any shot, but they aren't huge either. That said the RL, while not exactly a racing machine, is quite a pleasant old bus to drive, especially when you compare them the the likes of the QL, these are practically modern cars.

Overhead valves for a start, that's very modern. What's the displacement? The crankcase looks pretty big so I'm guessing the stroke is quite long.

4.9 litres. The smaller engine in the wartime lorries was also OHV. Very willing engines when running well for their time really.

[gtviva]

If you need it this should be the correct drawing for the compressor, if your short of parts pic a number off the drawing and I can sort the part numbers, if you can see the numbers!

[Dez]

Nov 1, 2019 17:57:12 GMT PhilA said:

Nov 1, 2019 17:09:19 GMT Rich said:

It is and isn't. It is a bit deceptively small looking in the pics, they are not tiny motors by any shot, but they aren't huge either. That said the RL, while not exactly a racing machine, is quite a pleasant old bus to drive, especially when you compare them the the likes of the QL, these are practically modern cars.

Overhead valves for a start, that's very modern. What's the displacement? The crankcase looks pretty big so I'm guessing the stroke is quite long.

The original Chevy engine that these are a development of debuted in 1929, and was Chevrolets only engine option for 25 years!
The idea that OHV is a ‘modern’ thing is a bit of myth.

[Tamber]

Nov 1, 2019 11:30:52 GMT gtviva said:

As usual there seems to be about 4 different sets listed depending on engine number, there were also slight variations on if it was military spec, let me have as much info as you can and I can check but I definitely have some sets its just working out if they are correct!

The engine number on the side of the sump flange is 728142, but without an 'RL' prefix; the head has casting number 2687374, which I believe means it's the older style of head that gives 6.1:1 compression.

Nov 1, 2019 17:57:12 GMT PhilA said:

What's the displacement? The crankcase looks pretty big so I'm guessing the stroke is quite long.

300.7cu.in displacement, 3.875inch bore, 4.250inch stroke.

Nov 1, 2019 19:20:29 GMT gtviva said:

If you need it this should be the correct drawing for the compressor, if your short of parts pic a number off the drawing and I can sort the part numbers, if you can see the numbers!

That does appear to be the correct drawing for the compressor. I think I've got pretty much all the bits for putting it back together again, but I'll definitely keep that in mind, thank-you!

[gtviva]

That seems a very high engine number, it would make it one of the very last fitted in that model?



These are the head sets I have, one early and 2 later style but not for the very late engine as there seems to be a lot of changes on the inlet/exhaust manifolds, the centre and left hand head gaskets are pretty manky though






Also got a few other odd gaskets 2 rear diff cover and 2 rear gearbox cover

[Tamber]

Nov 2, 2019 11:33:03 GMT gtviva said:

That seems a very high engine number, it would make it one of the very last fitted in that model?

My guess would be that it's had a reman engine, at some point, so the engine number might not necessarily relate to much.

Nov 2, 2019 11:33:03 GMT gtviva said:

These are the head sets I have, one early and 2 later style but not for the very late engine as there seems to be a lot of changes on the inlet/exhaust manifolds, the centre and left hand head gaskets are pretty manky though

I've already got a head gasket stashed away, so that's not too much of a problem; and I do plan to make some new inlet/exhaust manifolds (because of the fuel-injection plans) so that crosses the manifold gaskets (and carb spacer & gaskets) off the list. Think that leaves me with only the rocker-box gasket & rubber bungs, as well as the gasket for the push-rod cover, that I'd be after?

Nov 2, 2019 11:33:03 GMT gtviva said:

Also got a few other odd gaskets 2 rear diff cover and 2 rear gearbox cover

Hmm, don't think I'll need those, but good to know!

[slackerTHEpinstriper]

My bro in law has an RL, iyll get pics next time I'm at the unit.
If and when your finished with this gimme a shout if you want the Signwriting putting back on

[slackerTHEpinstriper]

As promised

[Sweetpea]

Seems to have an '80s Celica on the back. That's a win all round in my book.

[Tamber]

That's cool to see! Needs a little love and attention!

[accord83]

I had to re-read the bumper sign, I thought it said Pie Carrier, that's my kind of truck!

[Tamber]

Freed the clutch, and I must say I've seen much worse *drive* into the workshop.





and the flywheel:





I'd like to note, just for reference since I struggled for ages and didn't find directions in the WSM (Which means I'll find them, now, looking for something else): You have to take the flywheel out before you can take the clutch-housing off, because five of the seven bolts that hold it on, are behind the flywheel!



Anyway, with the housing off, I could finally bolt it to my new engine stand. Now, I expected it to struggle a little with the weight & bulk, despite being rated at 560kg SWL, but...

That was with the hydraulic part of the jack all the way down, and only the screw portion of it still holding the engine up.

Excessive droop detected! More bracing required!

I'm significantly more impressed at my "shoddy" little cradle, having seen that. To be fair, I didn't expect it to fare too well holding up the Bedford lump, but it's a lot easier to start from something rather than building a stand entirely from scratch.

The real trick is going to be bracing it up while making sure it's still disassemble-able, to save space. I have a plan, though.

[Sweetpea]

Nov 16, 2019 22:16:07 GMT Tamber said:

You have to take the flywheel out before you can take the clutch-housing off, because five of the seven bolts that hold it on, are behind the flywheel!

Excuse me? You have to take the flywheel off before the bell housing? How does that happen then? Is there a big hole in the bottom of the bell housing or something?
That was a lot of question marks in one sentence. Sorry about that.

So is that 560 Chinese Kgs or is the motor stupidly heavy?
Sorry. Used another question mark there. England has probably run out of them now.

[Tamber]

Nov 16, 2019 23:36:55 GMT Sweetpea said:

Excuse me? You have to take the flywheel off before the bell housing? How does that happen then? Is there a big hole in the bottom of the bell housing or something?

Yup! And it has a bolt-on stamped lower part that covers up the bottom of the flywheel.

Nov 16, 2019 23:36:55 GMT Sweetpea said:

So is that 560 Chinese Kgs or is the motor stupidly heavy?

I'm going to guess a combination of both...

[Dez]

That bellhousing/flywheel setup is way more common than most people think. Loads of ‘60s and earlier vehicles are like that, especially GM products like Vauxhall victors, and obviously anything stovebolt related.

Ford basically did the same on the flatheads up to ‘48, but didn’t bother making the bellhousing removable!

If you want real fun and games, having to get the flywheel/clutch/bellhousing assembly off a seized motor with that setup Will teach you a lot of new swearwords.

[Deleted]

And although far removed from the Bedford - Jowett 4 cylinder boxer engines were also a remove the clutch & flywheel job prior to accessing the bolts for the bellhousing

[Tamber]

Housing:


...and with the tin bottom cover:

(The little dangly rivet thing is factory. Presumably to prevent the drain-hole from becoming blocked up.)

Today was another productive day! More strip-down ensued, and there's video. (Which will probably become part of a much larger overall engine tear-down video, later on.) Anyway, some discoveries were made, some not so good...


Gonna go out on a limb here and say that's not right clever, for the running surface of a lifter. The cam lobe looks flawless, though. This is the lifter for that stuck valve, which may possibly be part of its issues? The lifter for the intake valve of that cylinder is absolutely fine, so I don't think it's caused by running without the load of pushrod & valve spring...

So that'll need investigating & sorting. After that, I'd run out of excuses; time to play executioner...


Off with her head!

More surprises: Number 4 piston looks like it's had some excitement in the past.


But it doesn't seem like this head's seen any of it. (Though this appears to have also been the cylinder that has been sat with the inlet valve open while the truck was in the breaker's yard, since it shows signs of corrosion; nothing too worrying, though.)


And, of course, there was the non-surprise of confirming that the exhaust valve on number 2 is stuck. Doesn't seem to be bent, at first glance, but I've not done a detailed inspection.
And, since I can now measure one of those chambers...



Apparently I don't have a more accurate measuring tool than a tape measure up at the unit, but still... near enough 20mm deep from the face of the head, to the top of the chamber.

And that left us here, tonight:


Block oiled up, and under plastic to keep any grinding dust and other detritus out. I should probably shift focus back to the compressor, get that back together then I have fewer pieces knocking around to get broken/lost. Plus, then it's one more thing I can tick off being done.

[quaggers]

Nov 17, 2019 23:23:17 GMT Tamber said:

And, since I can now measure one of those chambers...

16 feet! Thats deep!

Love this thread, keep up the good work

[Darkspeed]

With the engine stand its the length of the engine that is the issue and the leverages - 560kg is probably okay if the weight is close to the stand pivot - for example if you mounted the engine transversely on the stand.

[peteh1969]

I had a similar problem when rebuilding the V4 for my Corsair I could not find the C of G to be able to rotate the engine mounted in line and the stand kept trying to go apex over base so I mounted it transverse, granted not as heavy as yours but it worked.