Charlie's Echo/Madam Mayhem - glacial Bedford RL project

[Tamber]

Nov 18, 2019 13:33:38 GMT Darkspeed said:

With the engine stand its the length of the engine that is the issue and the leverages - 560kg is probably okay if the weight is close to the stand pivot - for example if you mounted the engine transversely on the stand.

That's about what I figure, yeah. The Bedford's 6 is just too much weight too far out. It'd be nice if the instructions had a de-rate chart in there for "if you're going to be daft and put a truck motor on here..."

[Tamber]

Nov 18, 2019 12:50:34 GMT quaggers said:

16 feet! Thats deep!

No wonder it's got really low compression!

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2019 18:25:04 GMT Tamber said:

Nov 18, 2019 12:50:34 GMT quaggers said:

16 feet! Thats deep!

No wonder it's got really low compression!

Put a wee turbo on it to up the compression.....

turbine by quickrack, on Flickr

[Tamber]

Amazingly, I did a progress today. (Honest, I did! ...Okay, it's technically yesterday, now, but same difference.)

Step the first: Extract the oil control ring & retaining clip from that NOS piston, to fit to the old piston...



(Can you see the problem yet? I hadn't, at this point.)

Okay, extract the ring and then clean the surface rust off, easy enough.



Mm. That's not good; guess I'm fitting the whole NOS aluminium piston, since the original cast-iron one is cracked. Not sure when that happened, but it might be why the original oil-control ring snapped when I went to remove it. Who knows. New rings filed, piston fitted to rod and dropped into the hole. Fits quite nice. Should probably pop it back out and give the bore a quick hone just to help the rings seat, which isn't really a problem, it's not all torqued up yet since I didn't have the spec to hand.

At some point, my steel order turned up, and I added reinforcing to the engine stand, and then...

Engine wants belly-rubs!



Looking quite good in there.


And not all that bad in there, either. Only 1/4" of sludge at the bottom of the sump.

Spent the rest of the evening cleaning out the inside of the sump back to nearly spotless, and hammering out the dents, since the sump appears to have met the front diff at some point.

I've also decided that, once the engine's rebuilt, I'm going to paint it the same colour that military-rebuilt engines were. (BS381C-101 Sky Blue, I believe.)

[07lilredwagon]

very cool. glad the innards look good...Military spec sure seems to fit the bill on this build!

JP

[Frankenhealey]

Nov 28, 2019 2:04:04 GMT Tamber said:

Spent the rest of the evening <snip> hammering out the dents, since the sump appears to have met the front diff at some point.

Usually that means 'DBS' or Driven by Squaddies or Destroyed by Squaddies in the worst case

[Tamber]

Just now picturing someone taking an RL off a Dukes of Hazzard style jump, and my insides are aching at just the thought.

[Tamber]

Interestingly, Richard Farrant on HMVF has noted that I've got the wrong sump. The 4x4s are supposed to have a front-sump, which gives more clearance to the diff, and also a sump guard to make it marginally more difficult for aforementioned squaddie to rip it right off on something.

That would explain the diff-print in the sump, then.

[Zelandeth]

Nov 28, 2019 18:44:43 GMT Tamber said:

Just now picturing someone taking an RL off a Dukes of Hazzard style jump, and my insides are aching at just the thought.

...I may have been responsible for getting a not at all insignificant amount of airtime while driving a mate's Alvis Stalwart. In my defense however, he drives it like even more of a nutter than I did...and it's hard to be sensible in that thing off road.

Imagine I'd treat something like this with rather more care!

[Tamber]

Now I'm picturing a Stolly flying like an orange Charger, and it's a thing of beauty.

[Zelandeth]

Nov 29, 2019 1:32:54 GMT Tamber said:

Now I'm picturing a Stolly flying like an orange Charger, and it's a thing of beauty.

If you had told me you could get that many tonnes of metal that far into the air that easily I would have laughed at you...just one of the many ways in which that vehicle seems to completely disregard the laws of physics. Probably closely associated with the fact that top speed is 45-50mph - utterly irrespective of the terrain being traversed at the time.

Have to admit that few things have put quite as big a grin on my face as driving that thing. Or made me swear as much as helping work on it. Have strong memories of being volunteered to change the brake master cylinder because I was the smallest...and spending what felt like a week completely dismantling what felt like the entire cab to get to it. Serviceability definitely wasn't too of the priorities on the design brief it felt like.

Despite that though, if I had room to store one, I'd still have one as a toy for the weekends.

Does feel like any commercial or military vehicles from that sort of time period though have a very particular charm to them which makes them almost universally appealing...

[darrenh]

Jul 22, 2019 22:31:33 GMT Tamber said:

Some more activity on the brakes. This time, the front offside. Usual procedure, jack, wheel off, hub off, beat the snot out of the drum&hub, etc.

that reluctor ring for the ABS needs some attention

ha ha i am so witty

[glenanderson]

Only half...

🤣😉

[Tamber]

Nov 29, 2019 8:11:52 GMT Zelandeth said:

Have to admit that few things have put quite as big a grin on my face as driving that thing. Or made me swear as much as helping work on it. Have strong memories of being volunteered to change the brake master cylinder because I was the smallest...and spending what felt like a week completely dismantling what felt like the entire cab to get to it. Serviceability definitely wasn't too of the priorities on the design brief it felt like.

Service it? Service it?! You're supposed to send it back so that it can be completely rebuilt around a new master cylinder.

Nov 29, 2019 8:11:52 GMT Zelandeth said:

Despite that though, if I had room to store one, I'd still have one as a toy for the weekends.

They do look to be a real hoot, but I think I'll just live vicariously through others when it comes to the big silly lumps. There's a very definite "Wobbly-set British Sci-Fi" vibe to them that I really like, though. (Also, 6.5 litre straight-8 petrol; what's not to like? ...oh, right, the fuel bill. )

Anyway, today's progress on the Bedford was messy (The underside of the pistons filled up with oil, from having the engine sat upside down. ), but interesting:

Rod bearings look absolutely brand-new.


Rod journals look great, too.


Some unusual pistons. There are two types of piston in this engine, one type stamped 'B' in the CROWN, the other stamped 'Y' and looks pretty snazzy:

(For some reason, I struggled to get a decent picture of the pistons at all; this one has a torch shining up under the piston skirt, to show the interesting cuts and whatnot. The 'B' type piston has fewer cuts/slots in the skirt, and (I think) a heavier skirt overall. I'll try and get better pictures after I've given them a proper cleaning.

Also, unsurprisingly, there were a few stuck rings.

And to end the evening, before I packed everything up:

None of this silly timing chain or belt nonsense going on here! Currently pondering where I might be able to put a cam sensor for the upcoming fuel injection fun and games, and thinking back of the timing case. just got to see if there's a feature on the back of the cam gear that I can pick up off.

[tristanh]

You'd only need a sensor on the cam for fully sequential injection? Probably easier to fit one on the front pulley for semi sequential

[Tamber]

Yeah, I was thinking of aiming for sequential fuel & spark. Nothing like a challenge...

I'm going to need one on the front pulley (current idea is to have a step machined on a part of the pulley just away from the belt, and have a 60-2 ring machined to fit on said step, so it runs true.) anyway, but figured if I'm going to the trouble I might as well do the work now to add in cam-angle rather than deciding I want it later and having to take things back apart.

Also, since I forgot them: A picture of the worst bore of the 6:


And the 'B' type piston:

[Sweetpea]

But, but, er...

But...

So you've got 2 types of pistons in it. That can't be normal is it? Must have been rebuilt with bits they had lying around at some point?
Your pistons seem to have a skirt that's not part of the CROWN.
And you seem to have 2 oil control rings on them, the bottom one would hold oil above it!? And given that the CROWN and the skirt don't seem to be totally connected that could be quite a lot of oil.

Your truck gets more fascinating each day. Or I don't understand the photos properly.

[Tamber]

Nov 30, 2019 20:58:38 GMT Sweetpea said:

So you've got 2 types of pistons in it. That can't be normal is it? Must have been rebuilt with bits they had lying around at some point?

Yup! That's my guess, too. And with it having the wrong oil-pan for the 4x4 truck, I'm gonna guess they blew up the motor it came with, and built up another one with pieces they had laying around. Might explain why it's seemingly a fairly late block (by the engine number) but an early head. (Perhaps they blew it up properly, leg out of bed and all, and scrapped the block & oil-pan.)

Nov 30, 2019 20:58:38 GMT Sweetpea said:

Your pistons seem to have a skirt that's not part of the CROWN.

And you seem to have 2 oil control rings on them, the bottom one would hold oil above it!? And given that the CROWN and the skirt don't seem to be totally connected that could be quite a lot of oil.

Skirt seems to be cast as one piece with the CROWN, but it's got some pretty radical cuts and grooves through to the inside. The lower oil control ring has fairly decent ports behind it to allow drain-back, and maybe those slots are also to allow oil to drain back to the inside of the piston rather than get trapped above the lower ring. Not quite sure, to be honest.

Nov 30, 2019 20:58:38 GMT Sweetpea said:

Your truck gets more fascinating each day. Or I don't understand the photos properly.

It certainly seems to have lived an exciting life that I really wish I knew more about! I should've gotten some better pictures today, while I was cleaning the pistons, but I didn't want to get my camera all covered in oil & manky old diesel.

In actual progress news items, I welded a bit of angle in to the back of the cab so now the removable panel that holds the gaiters for the gear levers has something to attach to! Next bit that needs attention there is finishing up welding the back of the cab to the cross-member, and putting in the plates on the inside that I couldn't get to previously.

After that, I have a little more sheet metal trimming to do, to finish cleaning up the rear of the cab for a nice shiny new section to go in. Just got to pay attention to my order of operations, don't want to weld in a piece that then gets in the way of other bits... Still, one piece at a time...

[Sweetpea]

Nov 30, 2019 22:53:29 GMT Tamber said:

Skirt seems to be cast as one piece with the CROWN, but it's got some pretty radical cuts and grooves through to the inside. The lower oil control ring has fairly decent ports behind it to allow drain-back, and maybe those slots are also to allow oil to drain back to the inside of the piston rather than get trapped above the lower ring. Not quite sure, to be honest..

I did wonder if it was done deliberately to capture a bit of oil between the two rings which would then drain through the little end lubricating it in the process. Would be an odd way to do it though.

[darrenh]

I've got a pictorial map of motronic m2.5 fuel injection (which is an early sequential 3D management from late 80s) not only does it inject each cylinder selectively, but it also injects each cylinder twice, by half the amount of fuel, the least logical half of the petrol sprayed against the back of a closed inlet valve, 2 cycles early

Anyway the manual says that side by side compared to batch or paired injecting (this Is a 4 cyl petrol) that it didn't offer out and out greater power or torque, but improved efficiency. The engine (at the time, late 80s) rivaled the specific fuel consumption of some of its contemporary diesel engines